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Hey there guys, long time lurker, first time poster.
Anyway, though from what I've seen the top shelf setup on line Infantry Squads is the trusty Autocannon/Grenade Launcher, I am getting a guard army together and am considering including a different type in addition to the AC/GL:
Platoon Command Squad: 2 Grenade Launchers- 40
Infantry Squad: Flamer, Sergeant with Power Weapon- 65
Infantry Squad: Flamer, Sergeant with Power Weapon, Commissar with Power Weapon- 110
Basically the two squads will combine, and move forward with orders from the command squad, who will move up behind and provide a little mobile fire support. With their flamers and numbers, the combined squad will act as a counter-assault unit, tying up enemy elites and capturing objectives if it survives marching across the table.
What I'd like to know is how viable this formation is. I can see it being totally eaten by large Hormagaunt squads and such, but it could be useful for delivering the killing blow to smaller MEQ combat squads who get shot out of their Rhinos by my AC/GL platoon. Stubborn should be useful, and the 12 power weapon attacks should kill an average of 2 MEQs on the charge, which isn't too bad.
Advice and suggestions appreciated, especially from the veterans like Lord Borak et al.
Hey there, I might be no Vet but here's what I think:
It seems to cost way too much points for what your trying to do with that squad. A new idea, but probably not worth the 215 points; especially when 215 points used elsewhere could do more damage to the enemy than that squad ever could. But it could be fun just to test out though =D and if anything, add 2 more Gl's to the PCS.
Last edited by 24Eagle11; May 26th, 2010 at 06:26.
"The only restraint is yourself..."
Thanks for your two cents man, you make some good points.
In the back of my head is the thought that more AC/GL squads is a better use of the points. However, I'm going pretty infantry-heavy and will probably have enough redundancy to indulge in crazy stuff like this and still have an effective force. Besides, I love the idea of having a mass of Guardsmen charging in with fixed bayonets and bursts of flame.
Any uber leet mathhammer sages out there able to give me a vague idea of how well this squad will do in a war of attrition with MEQs and other units? Stubborn + non-Independent Character power weapons must count for something right?
Also I'll probably take your advice about the extra nade launchers on the PCS, no reason not to.
I run Hybrid lists fairly often (consisting of a platoon or two, plus veterans), and I've got a few standard loadouts that can assist you.
First, you need to know what you want to do wit hit. It seems like you want to use it as a counter-charge or counter-attack unit. This is not a good use of a platoon. If you want a good counter-charge unit, use Grey Knight allies (take this with a grain of salt).
A good platoon loadout generally enhances the rest of your army, but remains focused in it's task.
I'd recommend the following:
Your platoon command squad can carry four special weapons, so give 'em four Grenade Launchers like Eagle said. An alternative approach is to give them two grenade launchers, and an Autocannon or a Heavy bolter (Heavy bolters will score more wounds on infantry, Autocannons will score more hits on everything else). When in doubt, autocannon.
Secondly, for each infantry squad inside your platoon, give them a Grenade Launcher and an Autocannon. Autocannons are a cheap use of points, and GLs are just as cheap. Both give you more high strength shots down range, and the targets for a Grenade Launcher are, 90% of the time, the same target an Autocannon would be firing it. Use blast mode often against clustered enemies.
In addition, give ONE squad a Commissar with a power fist. If you have the points, you can give the sarge for both infantry squads a power fist or power weapon. At game time, decide whether to combine: For objective missions, keep them separate. For kill point missions, blob them together.
Overall, by just chaging around weapons slightly, you have a much more capable platoon, for roughly the same points, that can provide accurate (with orders), high strength shots, plus blast templates (from the Grenade Launchers), and in a pinch, a blob that will survive an assault from marines (with the power fists).
Why power fist? You've got a blob of infantry protecting you, so you can afford to go at I1. You want the S6 to wound marines on 2s. You'll kill 3 to 4 marines a turn with this squad load out in assault. You'll lose a LOT in return, but in a pinch, it'll keep your squad alive. If the marines get bored of assault and run away, they've got a platoon's worth of angry guys with flashlights ready to blind them to their deaths.
Last edited by cKerensky; May 26th, 2010 at 16:55.
Unfortunately you can´t give your blob commissar a power fist. Fists are only for PCS or higher. I still look sadly at all my beautiful power fists wielding black coats
But concerning mrlobster´s set up... I used it during a cities of death tournament in a hybrid list and it worked perfectly. But if you want to march them forward out of the cities you should use a bigger blob or use the 20 men as some kind of a second wave behind mechanised units to mob things up.
Concerning the assault cannons
If you are always going to march this squad forwards you don´t need them, but if you´ve got the points they never hurt (you).
Oh! I forgot that you will play infantry heavy. So if you have more than one 20 men blob marching forward, I don´t think you will have to make them bigger.
Even if you can't give 'em a power fist, you can give them a power weapon (or can you? I'm at work). End result is only slightly modified.
We don't get assault cannons, are you referring to auto-cannons?
Last edited by cKerensky; May 26th, 2010 at 19:00.
I run my ccs's with 4 flamers, and a Chmera, it's great against hordes and very effective if used in conjunction with chimeltas. Let the vets pop transports and then toast the soft squidgy insides.
Platoon squads get an Autocannon and grenade launcher
Project Genestealer Cult
Blood Bowl > You
Of course! Auto cannons. Sorry. Usually I have problems with abbreviations. But the other way round?
PCS with flamers work fine. But if your blob uses them the PCS don´t.
I wish we got Assault Cannons. That would just be epic.
I can just imagine a Russ with a hull mounted assault cannon....
Okay thanks for the comments folks.
Seems like the consensus, as I mentioned in my first post, is for AC/GL squads. I will have a platoon full of AC/GL guys to hold my lines, but if I need another blob to move forwards through cover and potentially take enemy objectives, wont the heavy weapon be a waste like Hallmarius said? Both setups (AC/GL, Power Weapon/Flame) cost 65 points, it's just one is meant to be static and one more aggressive. Anyone had good experience with this type of squad like Hallmarius?
On the whole issue of Grey Knights Kerensky raised, they're cool but a huge points sink, not really relevant to my fluff, and what's more the current rumours seem to suggest that the upcoming Grey Knights rules will have no option for allies. Just another thing to consider I guess.
And yes, it would totally rock if we could give our blob Commissars Power Fists...