Land Raiders & Terrain - WHY?! - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    That Which Has No Time Red Archer's Avatar
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    Land Raiders & Terrain - WHY?!

    Land Raiders - towering behemoths that crush everything in their wake. They tear down buildings by driving through their walls, they plough through dense forests unhindered, they roll along the bottoms of seas and oceans to launch surprise attacks on the shores... well: fluff-wise, that is.

    Game-wise Land Raiders do none of those. In fact they are most vulnerable to terrain. Neither are they amphibious, nor do they ignore difficult/dangerous terrain or at least re-roll failed dangerous terrain tests. Nor do they have any options that would allow one of the things stated. On the tabletop the Land Raider gets stuck or blow its engines, where Vindicators roll without any difficulties and even Rhinos and Razorbacks, Whirlwinds and Predators maneuver successfully.

    Why, on Terra, do Land Raiders not have some protection against terrain, let alone the option of buying siege shields or at least dozer blades?! Especially since Chaos Land Raiders do get the option of dozer blades. And we had them up to fourth edition as well...



    I didn't care for this issue a long time now. But since I am trying to play some mechanized infantry lists for a change (all those non-biker models used their puppy dog eyes on me), I am once again very concerned with this. It just can't be right that you risk effectively losing a third of your army (an expensive land raider and its equally expensive cargo) to a single unlucky dangerous terrain test.

    It must be an oversight, right? Who's in for a petition? Or has anyone go any other solutions for their Land Raiders?


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  3. #2
    Senior Member SeanBurton's Avatar
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    umm solution? -do NOT send your raider with sed expensive unit into cover?

    As a general rule of thumb don't bring fluff into 40k rules -fluffwise a 5man marine squad can take a planet

    As to the land raider specifically I think it's done to balance the raider its so uber and hard to kill that letting ít ignore cover would just hurt -do NOT penelize csm thier current dex reeks leave them this lil bonus as it still does not make up for the absolutely dismal current codex

  4. #3
    Son of LO ze_poodle's Avatar
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    The original Land Raider was supposedly modeled around a snowmobile, so it makes absolutely no sense that the vehicle would have terrain problems. Nevertheless, the main reason they can't purchase dozer blades, I believe, is because this would block their front access ramp - a design trait that is unique to the Land Raider model. I've no idea why Chaos Land Raiders can; I'd like to see the model for that.

    Then again, real-world tanks do have crippling difficulties with bad terrain. They're most effective in wide-open deserts or flat plains, and least effective in heavily forested, mountainous or urban areas. This is realistically displayed on tabletop, at least. So while a snowmobile might not have problems, a tank definitely would - and a snowmobile is actually a piss-poor design for a tank, which is why people don't do it in real life. So it at least behaves like a tank, even if it doesn't look like one, and even if what it does look like would behave differently.

    Look what I found! That's what it must look like.
    Last edited by ze_poodle; May 28th, 2010 at 17:12.
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  5. #4
    That Which Has No Time Red Archer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ze_poodle View Post
    the main reason they can't purchase dozer blades, I believe, is because this would block their front access ramp - a design trait that is unique to the Land Raider model. I've no idea why Chaos Land Raiders can; I'd like to see the model for that.
    That's easily solved. See this thread here, for example. Or even if the upgrade would block the front access ramp I wouldn't mind very much...

    Quote Originally Posted by ze_poodle View Post
    Look what I found! That's what it must look like.
    Sweet!

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    Formerly Prince of Excess EmoJosh's Avatar
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    Actually pushing it through terrain is extremely demoralizing for your opponent. Every time I play someone with a Raider I go "BREAK DOWN COME ON!" and it never does. It always makes me sad and question the justice of the universe....until I drop 12 Meltas on it and it turns into ash. But....it's demoralizing for a bit.
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  7. #6
    jy2
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    Haha. Daemonhunter land raiders rock. They can still take dozers and have smokes that reduce pens to glances. Their LRC's are arguably the best land raider in all of 40K (well, at least until they get an update).


    Quote Originally Posted by SeanBurton View Post
    do NOT penelize csm thier current dex reeks leave them this lil bonus as it still does not make up for the absolutely dismal current codex
    I'm going to have to disagree here. Their codex is still very strong and they consistently finish high in tournaments.
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    Senior Member Intrepid's Avatar
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    Why, on Terra, do Land Raiders not have some protection against terrain
    To reflect the fact that they're too fat to fit between buildings and down most city streets, prone to getting high-centered on anything smaller than a Chimera and vulnerable to utility poles and trees getting wrapped around their oversized sponsons?
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    Member camarodragon's Avatar
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    Whats worse than that is this scenario..

    The Bloodangels Landraider was carrying a tooled up unit on assault terrminators screams into the atmosphere beneath the underbelly of a gigantic thunderhawk. The second the raider is released, alarms echo though its hull. The raider plummets toward the earth, and mere seconds from the ground the raiders retro thrusters kick in at the last second. The raider is slightly off target and a lone tau firewarrior blocks its normal drop point. The tau firewarrior screams as it sees 80 tons of steel hurtiling towards him and he accidently shoots 1 shot from his pulse rifle as he trys to get out of its path of destruction. The bolt hits the uderside of the raider, finding a weakspot and pierces its laser capacitors and it erupts in a fiery red explosion and contiues to plummet to the ground. WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!


    Its an 80 ton raider!!!... It should have rules like a monolith where stuff gets out of the way... not that it explodes.. GW messed this one up...
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    Member Pagliacci's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by camarodragon View Post
    Whats worse than that is this scenario..

    The Bloodangels Landraider was carrying a tooled up unit on assault terrminators screams into the atmosphere beneath the underbelly of a gigantic thunderhawk. The second the raider is released, alarms echo though its hull. The raider plummets toward the earth, and mere seconds from the ground the raiders retro thrusters kick in at the last second. The raider is slightly off target and a lone tau firewarrior blocks its normal drop point. The tau firewarrior screams as it sees 80 tons of steel hurtiling towards him and he accidently shoots 1 shot from his pulse rifle as he trys to get out of its path of destruction. The bolt hits the uderside of the raider, finding a weakspot and pierces its laser capacitors and it erupts in a fiery red explosion and contiues to plummet to the ground. WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!


    Its an 80 ton raider!!!... It should have rules like a monolith where stuff gets out of the way... not that it explodes.. GW messed this one up...
    Tanks are absolutely not designed to be air-dropped, since that means they are taking a hit from their own mass (probably more than 80 tons in the case of a Land Raider) multiplied by the acceleration due to gravity. Think of it is though it were ramming itself from a speed of around 30". I don't recall reading anything about retro thrusters either. This is why only the Blood Angels are insane enough to try this idea.

  11. #10
    LO Zealot BossGorestompa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pagliacci View Post
    Tanks are absolutely not designed to be air-dropped, since that means they are taking a hit from their own mass (probably more than 80 tons in the case of a Land Raider) multiplied by the acceleration due to gravity. Think of it is though it were ramming itself from a speed of around 30". I don't recall reading anything about retro thrusters either. This is why only the Blood Angels are insane enough to try this idea.
    In this case, the Thunderhawk would fly in close to the ground and drop is from probably no more than two stories off the ground. Missing the LZ and hitting debris or terrain otherwise could cause countless complications, whether jamming the treads, flipping the tank, or causing it to land at an odd angle and damage itself under it's own weight... but in the case of a lone Fire Warrior... I agree, and I suspect it will be FAQ'd, it doesn't make much sense for a single enemy model to cause a Land Raider to do ANY of the DS Mishaps. More like.. get the greater good out of the way! Unless that model is a Carnifex of course, which is why I'd like to see it treated as a tank shock. Here's the opportunity for the rules to evolve, and I hope they handle it properly.

    So far as Land Raiders driving through terrain.. I don't know, I've never noticed the lack of a dozer blade. I'd think it'd make sense for it to just be included in the rules -- it's so freaking big, and thickly plated, it doesn't need a dozer blade (which would undoubtedly be damaged long before the LR itself would be). But I've never had a problem with it.. I suppose, I've always used, and seen used as, mobile cover. Hence, I never see LR's try to move through cover, that'd be counter productive so far as the whole taking the cover with you scheme goes. However, I could see the case where it'd be better to take a shortcut through some ruins to deposit your uberdeathkill units in the face of a nearby enemy, but if that circumstance doesn't occur often, probability is in your favor.
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