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Since the imperial army design tutorial sticked in this forum is a little out of date I thought I'd ask some advice directly from all you guard players.
I have an imperial guard army that was collected purely for easy storage, fluff and modelling reasons. The result was an army with only 1 chimea, no other tanks, some infantry, lots of hwt's and some rough riders. When I finally got around to playing with it, it died badly. Then I though throwing any old tanks in would make me win but it seems its a bit more complex than that. One of the players I play against the most has moulded his army around advice taken from the Tau forum and it has resulted in a battle suit heavy list, maxed out with only the units years of combined experience see as value for points and that pummels me with rail guns, plasma rifles and missile pods before dissapearing out of view in his turn. I'm having as much trouble with his marines (in all thier landraider, vindicator storm shiled termies nastyness) and another firends necrons and eldar.
If I post the models I have already bought, would any kind experienced gaurd players suggest whcih units I should field, a good way to field them and what I should concentrate on buying next? I'll list any equipment modelled on the models.
Thanks in advance!
- Command squad with medic, grenade launcher, cammo cloaks and officer of the fleet
- 2 Commisar models, one with a bolt pistol, the other a power weapon
- 3x priests (no eviscerators)
- 1 enginseer and 6 servitors, one with a heavy bolter, one a multi melta
- 6 Ratlings
- A stormtrooper squad with grenade launcher and flamer (ie the hard to convert Kasarkin box set)
- 55 guardsmen including a selection of sergents and a platoon commander, some voxs 2 flamers, 2 meltas and 4 more meltas sitting in a box for conversion if neccesary. Parts to make or made 3 missiles, 3 mortars. 3 autocannon, possibly 3 Heavy bolters
- 10 veterans with carapace armour, 2 meltas and a flamer
- 4 chimeras (1 flamer, 3 multilaser)
- 10 rough riders
- 1 valk (with no guns yet attached so I may convert to a vendetta)
- 3 sentinals magnetised for all the options
- 1 Basalisk, with a modification to allow it to be fielded as a HB Chimera or Hydra if thats better
- 1 Manticre/Death strike box as yet unmade
- 1 Russ demolisher/punisher/executioner magnatised to have all turret/sponson/hull options
- 2 Russ exterminators with HB sponsons, 1 has a lascannon.
What out of that lot is worth using, what is underpowered, what more do I need and how best to use it. I know this s a big ask, but anything the Tau forum can do I'm sure the guard one can do better Rep at the ready
There is a lot of good stuff in that list and you can build a decent list out of it.
Some of the poorer units in terms of effectiveness are:
- Priests (unless you make a very, very specific build)
The Exterminator and Rough Riders can be made to work, but they are inefficient.
I don't build lists for people, so go ahead and check through the army list forums and get a feel for what others have come up with. Post up a list when you think you have an idea or feel free to send me other the others a PM with any questions.
As Hockeyman said, theres some good stuff there. My main advice for army list building would be to start off with a solid infantry core, then add tanks to provide fire support. Then look at more specialised units like veterans and stormtroopers, and think about what your army needs most. Anti-horde? Anti-tank? Gear these units towards fullfilling a specific role. Finally, look to fill any gaps and use up left over points.
Thanks guys, this is the kind of advice I'm after, I like writing my own lists, but I'm interested in peoples experiences on which units are effective and with what loadouts.
I did struggle with anti tank in the last game I played. The only lascannon I had were on two of the tanks and they died to vindicator and lascannon die quite fast. Would you suggest lascannon in infantry squads or are the squads all better off in transports?
In the game before I really struggled to pin down jumpy boomin crisis suits!
Lascannons work great in infantry squads, but infatry squads are also great mounted up in transports. What you pick all depends on how you want to run your list.
Hockey is very right. If I'm bringing Lascannons to the fight, they're only ever on Vendettas, and their lascannons rarely turn on anything AV13, and completely ignore AV14. Even S10 shots can be iffy, but fortunately our S10 shots are usually ordinance, which make the job easier.
The Deathstrike/Manticore box is a great kit. I bought two, one is a Manticore, and the other is a Deathstrike (you can't magnetize them to swap between the two, sadly. Not easily, anyway). With the storm troopers, they DO offer special weapon blisters for them. Each Special weapon blister comes with a plasma and melta guy. Buy two and you're set there.
Having a big combined squad of infantry with lasacnnons and a company commander yelling 'Bring it down' can be quite effective for anti-tank fire. However, there is much debate about wether autocannons are better for this. Lascannons are great against monstrous creatures, and just occasionally can knock out a landraider. Autocannons have a higher rate of fire so can deal with infantry and have a better chance of hitting things, S7 is still good, and autocannons are probably the best anti transport weapon.
Stormtroopers are good for anti-tank. Take one or two squads of five, gie them two melta guns and drop them right next two a tank. You can you their mission rule to get them on target, but the name for the specific one escapes me...
Veterans prove effective antitank when loaded up with melta weapons and melta bombs. Or, for a more balanced approach, take three flamers and 'Demolitions' doctrine. You have anti horde, anti tank, and anti power armour weapons. The only area where they stuggle is against monstrous creatures.
I share your pain on crisis suits. One way to deal with them is to keep shooting them until they don't jump anymore. Simple. Devil dogs can rip them apart without too much trouble, and have the speed to stay out of reach.
I'd rather throw bring it down on a squad with Autocannons than a squad with Lascannons, and leave the Lascannons to a much more reliable delivery platform (Vendetta). The shots will bring down MCs quicker, and would do slightly better then lascannons against AV12 or lower.
Veterans...you should not ever give them flamers. If you want to give flamers, give them to your Platoon Command squad. They've got BS4, so use it on a weapon that needs to hit. Flamers are a waste of their excellent BS.
As for Crisis Suits, my best way of dealing with them? Vendettas. Just pour all their firepower (including heavy bolters) into them, and they'll drop like flies. If you've got demolishers on the field, the suits will be too busy to worry about Vendettas. And if they ARENT too busy, then your demolishers will finish them off. Either way, it's inflicting instant death (unless it's a heavy bolter save, anyway)
Isn't the issue with crisis suits that they can pop out, shoot, then hide so easily? Using direct fire weapons isn't going to work until you can envelop their cover and that is unlikely to happen until a few turns into the game.
I would take the Basilisk and then just beat the crisis suits at their own game shelling them from behind some of your own cover. Its statline is perfectly set to massacre them (instant death on a 2+ with no armour save!). Even better, you might be able to drive them into area terrain searching for a cover save and force them to be taking lots of dangerous terrain tests.
Yep, those are the ones, but I don't find it a trouble for Vendettas to get into position to take out, since it's a fast skimmer. Ideally, if I had a low AP Artillery weapon (something admittedly my list lacks, but Bassies won't fill that role), I'd use that. Usually against Tau, I find it much easier to just pop their transports and drop manticore shots on-top of their fire warriors. Kroot usually come to me, so I just throw a feeder squad or two at them.
Once I take out all their vehicles, a couple of railguns won't do anything to an infantry platoon, so it's just a matter of throwing autocannons on them, and whatever else I have left until they fail their saves. At that point, I'm not too worried.