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  1. #1
    Part time Pirate Lord Lucias's Avatar
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    Blood Angel Codex - Units.

    So now that we have had the new codex (or played against it) for some time.
    I thought it would be a good idea to discuss or ask questions about certain units.

    Like all army books there are some entries that are redundant due to price over what they can do / better models available.
    Or maybe there is a way we haven't thought of using it.

    For example.

    I'm looking at the DC Dreadnought and can't see why I would ever field one (unless for fluff or force slot reasons) where for the same price I can get a Furioso.

    The added front armour makes it more survivable in close combat and with blood talons and 4 attacks you could munch your way through a unit with ease.

    Am I missing something? I can't see the extra attack & special rules make up for it (esp with the negative of rage.)

    Keen to hear your thoughts and if there are any other units people can't see the use for (and maybe uses for them also.)

    L


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  3. #2
    This is for the haters... CrownAxe's Avatar
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    The DC has a load of extras over the Furioso, such as 3(4) instead of the Furioso's 2(3), Fleet, ignoring shaken and stunned, and Furious Charge. The only thing the Furioso over the DCD is WS6 (which doesn't really matter since WS5 is 1uping most units), FA13 (though sometimes I wish has could ignore shakes and stuns instead, they're just difference defenses) and with Red Thirst could get FC too (but probably not). Rage is hardly an issue since its only real negative is mitigated with Drop Pods or a Stormraven (my favorite way to run a DCD) and you can shoot, run, and charge freely.

    Not only that but our elite slot is pretty cramped. Everything in there is an excellent unit (except for tech marnies IMO) so its hard to find space for a Furioso. With six troop slots it is easy to give one to a DCD.

    Ultimately they perform two different rolls. The DCD is the best Blood Talons dread with the extra attack (it really makes a difference with talons), Furious Charge giving S7 and I5 so it usually will strike first and can beat up on T5 (great against Plague Marines), and Fleet helps get it into combats faster. The Furioso is good for the various weapon options so can be a more versitile unit like most dreads but are fighting for an elite choice slot.
    Last edited by CrownAxe; July 19th, 2010 at 12:18.

  4. #3
    Egg Head Miniatures:fbook And Justice For All's Avatar
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    DC dread in a pod has worked fairly well when play tested. Dropped, hid behind pod during shooting. Then charged into combat, sliced and diced with talons and killed loads. Didn't last teh game but made a real mess of my opponents game giving the rest of my army a good chance to get objectives.

    The things I've found that work well for me in the codex is..........

    1. Blood Lance. I usually take a librarian in one form or another and blood strike just does the job against all that light/mid armour we face and can really hurt a MC etc before the CC starts.

    2. All rhino chassis base vehicles. My tourney list had 10 in at 1750pts. It works so well as it can exploit weak areas in the enemy lines very well, react to changes on the battlefield and deliver troops really quick at end game. Vindicators went from being 'pretty good' in the standard codex to a 'must have' in the BA codex. Preds suddenly become useful and Baals are lethal with the AC/HB variation. The Flame version just fails as it means you have to get too close to use it. Razbacks again are simply brill in the BA codex. Move 12" and shoot. Priceless.

    3. Assault squads not Tac squads. The Tac squad is redundant in BA armies.

    4. Death Company. Although quite irritating that none of the chaplains can control them and the Tyco can't even join them (thats proper stupid) they are lethal. Jump packs cost way to much so podding in or rhino needed. Once in they will cut a bloody swathe through everything. They are an armies hammer.

    Stuff that is silly....

    1. Sang Guard. Too many points for so few attacks at base strength. Pointless in a competative list.
    2. Special Characters. Too pricey. I know everyone bleats about Mephiston but he really isn't that hard to deal with and he costs loads. In my club we call him the 'noobhammer' as only people who have never played against him don't deal with him quickly, so get hammered by him.
    3. Sang Priests. Although they bring plenty to the party they do cost justs a tad too much and can be singled out in combat. A savvy player will kill it with a high initiative character (if one is in the combat) then all of it's powers are negated for the rest of the combat. Quote from the latest FAQ:

    Q: At what point does my model need to be in range of a Sanguinary Priest to gain the bonuses of Furious Charge? A: When you put the bonuses to use, i.e. when the model makes its close combat attacks.

    Poo if you ask me.

    Thats where my thinking is at after playing about 8-10 games.

  5. #4
    Part time Pirate Lord Lucias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrownAxe View Post
    The DC has a load of extras over the Furioso, such as 3(4) instead of the Furioso's 2(3), Fleet, ignoring shaken and stunned, and Furious Charge. The only thing the Furioso over the DCD is WS6 (which doesn't really matter since WS5 is 1uping most units), FA13 (though sometimes I wish has could ignore shakes and stuns instead, they're just difference defenses) and with Red Thirst could get FC too (but probably not). Rage is hardly an issue since its only real negative is mitigated with Drop Pods or a Stormraven (my favorite way to run a DCD) and you can shoot, run, and charge freely.
    ....
    You make enough good points to make me try him but my problem is that without all the extras the DC has, I've been unstoppable with a furioso. In the last game he went through 10 assault marines on the charge and only stopped coz there was noone left to hit and bar a 30 man unit of Greenskins I can't see him needing more attacks.
    Being that he has armour 13, he will have alot this penetrating hits on him.
    But like I said i'll play test the DC out.

    Quote Originally Posted by And Justice For All View Post
    ..........
    3. Assault squads not Tac squads. The Tac squad is redundant in BA armies.
    I can see a play style of meltas instead of lascannons etc but I still believe Tac's should be the basis of any good army. At least one for objective holding / mid range fire support. A lascannon or two can help sufficiantly in taking wounds of lo ap hi strength creatures and anti tanks. With a long range support.

    Quote Originally Posted by And Justice For All View Post
    4. Death Company. Although quite irritating that none of the chaplains can control them and the Tyco can't even join them (thats proper stupid) they are lethal. Jump packs cost way to much so podding in or rhino needed. Once in they will cut a bloody swathe through everything. They are an armies hammer.
    I'm play testing a Recluciarch at the mo in a LRR with DC.. good hitting power but when counter charged lose alot of power.


    Quote Originally Posted by And Justice For All View Post
    3. Sang Priests. Although they bring plenty to the party they do cost justs a tad too much and can be singled out in combat. A savvy player will kill it with a high initiative character (if one is in the combat) then all of it's powers are negated for the rest of the combat. Quote from the latest FAQ:
    Bare sang priests in Tact squads or at the back of a unit so that they can't get into combat.

  6. #5
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    I played variations of both dreadnoughts heavily this past weekend and all I can is WoW !!!

    BT deathcompany dreadnoughts are amazing I ran two of them vanilla withought transport and they exceeded all expectations. Fleet with none can stay my wrath is priceless. Absolutely outstanding. It took four rounds of combat just to wreck one and. Both accumulated between 40-50% of the kills in a 1000 pt game.

    I tried Libby furioso and BT furioso. Harder to kill but attracts far to much attention for my taste with those load outs. Yes it too more fire power to bring them down but they just didn't last long enough.

    The most successful dreadnought combo iv had so far though is as follows, Furrioso with Magna grapple, Frag Cannon + heavy flamer and drop pod. drop next to light transpot proceed to blow up with magna grapple(some luck required) then template the unsespecting unit three times.

    I actually managed to blow up two rhinos with one frag cannon one game first turn. Then I templates the two units twice brough 1 under 50% and watched it flee off the board first turn while the other sat comfortably in the open and made every save. I made my points back on the model before I could even assault with it. It doesn't get much better then that.

    Death company do combat better more attacks, none can stay my wrath + fleet and they are a troop choice. But The furioso is so much more deadly

  7. #6
    This is for the haters... CrownAxe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klondiker View Post
    The most successful dreadnought combo iv had so far though is as follows, Furrioso with Magna grapple, Frag Cannon + heavy flamer and drop pod. drop next to light transpot proceed to blow up with magna grapple(some luck required) then template the unsespecting unit three times.
    You can't do this, all of your shots will have to target the Rhino. If you kill the Rhino, you cease firing

  8. #7
    Senior Member Zagman's Avatar
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    DC dread has a charge threat of 6" + d6" + 6". When launched out of a Storm Raven this becomes ~24-29" vs 23". Furious charge with fleet and the additional attack offers a greatly increased offensive potential.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrownAxe View Post
    You can't do this, all of your shots will have to target the Rhino. If you kill the Rhino, you cease firing
    I don't think that applies to a flame template, I mean you can template more then one unit without nominating a single target, atleast that was my understanding. To me it seems like you would use them in the same way as a blood lance, where you don't nominate a target you just shoot!

  10. #9
    Son of LO kevin vanrooyen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrownAxe View Post
    You can't do this, all of your shots will have to target the Rhino. If you kill the Rhino, you cease firing
    Yep, all firing from a unit is assumed to take place at the same time so you will roll all of your hits, then all ammour penetration rolls, than all damage chart rolls.

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  11. #10
    Part time Pirate Lord Lucias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrownAxe View Post
    You can't do this, all of your shots will have to target the Rhino. If you kill the Rhino, you cease firing
    I believe you are correct... more so you can target more than one vehicle (unless shooting through them) as your flame template must be position to cover as much of the unit as possible.

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