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  1. #1
    Member SoaringDust's Avatar
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    What to do next?

    Hello all

    I played my first game last Sunday, and it was really fun. Especially movement is a lot simpler than in Warhammer FB. Anyway, my cousin (my only opponent currently for those of you who haven't read my previous posts) felt that he didn't have enough points for building his Space Marine list, 500 pts that is, and he want to expand to 750. I know how difficult it can be to field an army of mostly elite units at low points since I play Warriors of Chaos in FB, but I currently can't afford to buy more models so he'll just have to endure for the moment. However, I am looking to expand once I have a better understanding of the rules and can afford it, which leads to the reason for this post.

    I realized during our game that I really hate having static units. I used veterans with autocannons and since they have such long range and we played annihilation I didn't really need to move them. Of course I might have to do that when playing another scenario, but I'd still like to get rid of them.

    I want to play aggressive, with lots of tanks and fast units, a mech list in other words. I'd like some advice on units and upgrades suitable for this kind of play. I have looked at various lists at this forum and the obvious troop choice seem to be veterans with 3x meltas in a chimera with ML/HF, but also a squad armed with plasmas. Any particular reason for this? I find the Hellhound and its variants very interesting, but I can't seem to find any list containing more than one. Is this because of the other units in fast attack or some other reason? For heavy support Leman Russ is the only unit that works, but which variant to use?

    As I've written in my previous threads I don't want to build a SM-specific army, it has to be able to take on most opponents.

    As always I'm very thankful for answers.


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  3. #2
    Senior Member Intrepid's Avatar
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    Yeah, if you want aggression and mobility then you'll be taking Vet squads with 3 special weapons exclusively for your troops. Hellhounds are phenomenal; if you haven't been seeing many then it's probably because the lists most like what you want usually bring Vendettas instead. I bring two Hounds in every game and never regret it.

    The Russ Demolisher is the most popular variant by far. The Battle Tank, Exterminator and Executioner also see heavy use. The Manticore might also work for you, as you'll have enough medium armor to overload your opponent's antitank ability.

    The Russ Executioner works very well in high-mechanized lists. The smaller templates make it easier to target enemies in close proximity to your transports, which will be a major issue thanks to the short range of special weapons.

    There's no such thing as SM-specific lists these days. Most lists are built to fight either high-mech, high-mobility or horde opponents, and even then there's considerable overlap in tactics...and many players simply max out on special weapons and call it good.
    "My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard

  4. #3
    Member SoaringDust's Avatar
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    You're probably right on the Hellhounds, most higher pts mech lists seem to have a couple of Vandettas and then Sentinels for the last fast attack option. I've been looking at the Bane Wolf, for even though the Hellhound's inferno cannon is far better than an ordinary HF, it seems that having a chimera for every squad fills up the need for flamers.

    As for the tanks, I already have a Demolisher and found it amazing at low pts, and I'll probably include at least one more tank at higher points. I have seen the Manticore on a couple of mech lists, could you please explain in further detail as to why you recommend taking one? Remember that I'm new at 40K.


    Quote Originally Posted by Intrepid View Post
    There's no such thing as SM-specific lists these days.
    Good, that should reduce the risk of building one unintentionally then.

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    Manticores drop the big template, high strength, MULTIPLE blasts on your enemy while you stay out of sight. Great for taking out MC squads.

    I also like the bane wolf (chem cannon) for close range support against Marine equivalents (MEQ). The best part is that you'd be able to move at cruising speed and still fire the main weapon, pretty neat imo.

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    LO Zealot Korona's Avatar
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    The hellhound trades off firepower for survivability. Its extra reach lets you flame enemy troops while staying outside of assault range. The extra reach also helps to extend its threat range and keep it out of the way of close ranged weapons like hull flamers and meltas when you are trying to concentrate fire.
    It struggles a bit against MEQs but it can still do a lot of damage to them. VS lighter armoured opponents it's devastating.

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    Senior Member Intrepid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoaringDust View Post
    I have seen the Manticore on a couple of mech lists, could you please explain in further detail as to why you recommend taking one?
    Manticores provide front-loaded firepower; they're very effective against all but the hardest targets but tend to be out of firepower by the midgame. This is fine when you're playing a Veteran-heavy list because all those special weapons will be out of range for the first couple turns. Having something to frag up the enemy before your more valuable, scoring units arrive is vital.

    Manticores also let you choose between direct-fire and indirect-fire operation. Tanks must hold still for the latter so the option to switch between the two is important for artillery in a fast-moving list.

    The downside to Manticores, normally, is their modest armor. Because of how dangerous they are for the first half of the game, they're a priority target but can't survive that kind of attention. When you field a list heavy with skimmers and Chimeras, however, you have so much medium armor that you opponent becomes overwhelmed. He can stop the Manticores or the Chimeras but not both, generally speaking, and this makes the Manticore more survivable than its statline would suggest.


    I prefer the Hellhound over the Banewolf for three reasons. One, the limited range on the Banewolf makes it vulnerable to close combat. About 75% of my vehicle deaths happen in CC so keeping back is important to me. Two, the Hound's rules for template-placing guarantee a large number of hits on target, every turn. Pump out enough wounds in one go and those Exarchs, sergeants and special-weapon models will start having wounds assigned to them. And three, the Inferno Cannon can be used against light armor like Landspeeders and Rhinos. The strength is nothing special, granted, but it always hits and ignores the cover saves from smoke launchers and fast moving...and you can sometimes hit two vehicles with the one (ranged) template, or get a rear-armor shot, etc.
    "My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard

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    Member SoaringDust's Avatar
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    Ok, thanks. I'll consider using a Manticore at some point. How large a game will be required to be worth taking one?

    What about the plasma guns then? I see from the rules that it is a very different weapon altogether, but what are they used for sepcifically? I have seen quite a few lists at higher points using three units with meltas and one with plasmas.

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    LO Zealot cKerensky's Avatar
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    The manticore will probably be out of shots by turn 4, and most definitely by turn 5. That's really end game for me. At that point the Hull heavy flamer does it's thing.

    Hellhounds are fine, but they lack the mobile punch that Vendettas give us. Do I take one? Yeah, I'll take one from time to time, and at under 1000 points, I never take a Vendetta (not that I can't fit it in, for other reasons).

    Intrepid's right about the banewolf, though. It roasts marines plenty, but it's going to die if you don't kill everything: The hell hound lives longer, and can thusly put out more wounds. Throw a multi-melta on it and if the main cannon ever gets blown off, you've got a fast vehicle on a more durable chimera chasis with a single BS3 multi-melta shot. Still scary!

    The three melta unit and one plasma unit is a setup to help provide protection against MCs and termiantors. Plasma guns are much better at killing these sorts of units by virtue of its second shot. Personally, though, I skip the plasma shots, but there is merit in it.
    Personally, if I were to run Plasma troops, I'd give them to a Company Command squad, by taking 3 plasma rifles, and a medic. If I had the points I might even indulge in a plasma pistol.

    As for when to use a manticore: to be honest, nothing less then 1500. Manticores are only AP4, so they aren't exactly fantastic at killing infantry, but they're rock solid at killing vehicles. Usually at 1500 your opponent will start fielding more and more vehicles, so this is about the right time to do it.

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    Member SoaringDust's Avatar
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    I see. Well, what's near at hand is, as I wrote, expanding to 750. I won't post an actual list for review until I've decided its time to expand, but you have given me a lot to think about in the meantime. I'm currently considering dropping the sentinels I have for a Hellhound, but in doing so I will lose all of my autocannons. As far as I understand, those are good at taking out transports at range, so without them I'll have to rely on the multilasers on the chimeras, is this a problem?

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    Autocannons are your friends for popping transports.

    Plasmas are really your TEQ killers. They come at a higher risk though, just keep that in mind. Personally, I take a medic and plasmas on my CCS. That way I can fire them from a chimera and not have to worry about blowing up my guys so easily, without having to rely on orders.

    I like the sentinels with autocannons a lot. They're great for outflanking and hitting side/rear armor with ease.

    The 3-1 ratio of melta to plasma is pretty common as well.

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