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Good morning to all,
After a difficult hour of "shopping" theropy, it was time to build a Blood Angels force...
As a "vanilla" codex player, I have my opinions on how to use certain squads. I'd like some advice to break through these opinions, so I may have a proper BA list.
Get ready for all the questions!
1. How would a force around jump pack marines do?
2. Can I capture and hold objectives, or am I better off with tactical squads in drop pods for that?
3. How would I use a sqaud of Death Company? Jump packs are too expensive, so I was thinking of a transport ... a black land raider!
4. Sanguinary Guard, who likes them?
5. Furioso. I'm gonna need every bit of help here, since I'm more experienced with the standard dread.
6. I wanted to have at least a squad of terminators. How should I equip them, and should they deep strike in or ride in a land raider?
7. Sternguard with a power fist, tons of melta weapons, in a drop pod. Good or bad idea?
8. Is it a good idea to strap jump packs on Sanguinary priests?
Fast Attack :
10. Was looking at tornados and typhoons. Thoughts?
11. Any reason why I should take a Baal over a standard pred?
12. Are bike squads, including scout, useful to a Blood Angels list?
Heavy Support :
13. Should I use up a slot for a standard dread, or just use predators/vindicators?
14. Despite their post cost, are any of the "special" characters good?
15. I was aiming for 2 reclusiarchs, or a reclusiarch and a librarian, for my HQ choices. Is it a good idea to strap a jump pack on a librarian or use its "wings" power?
Well, that was a list, eh? As you can see, I was aiming for a jump pack list, but there's quite a number of choices I like too.
Last edited by SheBeast76; September 15th, 2010 at 13:55.
1. Very well, but you need to maximise the concept. That is, you need lots and lots (and lots) of jump packers.
2. Don't forget: you don't need to sit on any objectives until the last turn.
3. If you're going with a Jump Pack-themed armies, one lone DC squad in a Rhino will quickly get isolated.
4. Some do, some don't. They have their place, but many think they're overcosted due to the lack of invulnerable save. They're expensive and die just as quickly as other marines.
5. Great with Blood Claws, but Death Company Furioso and Libby Dread are better.
6. Why not Deep Strike the Land Raider too?
7. The standard issue Suicide Melta-Sternguard. Works just as well here as anywhere, but since your Assault Squads can deep strike more reliably (Descent of Angels) with Melta weapons, why would you need to use them?
8. If the rest of your army has them, yes. Don't forget you get Sanguinary Priests in Command Squads too, for very cheap, and still with the 6" aura! And they don't use up an Elites slot!
9. Better than Vanilla, but still a bit poop. See question #4.
10. Typhoons are gold. Why would you even bother with a Tornado?
11. Because it uses a different FOC slot? Scouting Baal with Flamestorm is a nasty, if predictable, move.
12. Not as useful as in Vanilla (where they can be troops).
13. 2 x Autocannon is always good, but otherwise there are much better fire support options in the Codex. If you want a Dreadnought, go with Furioso.
14. Dante is good in an all-jump pack list for his reliable pinpoint melta delivery. Sanguinor/Mephiston only for larger games, but they do beat face completely.
15. Librarian with Jump Pack, Shield of Sanguinius and Unleash Rage is great. Unleash Rage means you don't need a Chaplain unless you have Death Company.
You can, and I'd use the assault troops - once a drop pod comes down, you lose that maneuverability.2. Can I capture and hold objectives, or am I better off with tactical squads in drop pods for that?Jump packs do nicely, even if they aren't cheap - but a Land Raider or Storm Raven would do. Just make sure it's an assault vehicle.3. How would I use a sqaud of Death Company? Jump packs are too expensive, so I was thinking of a transport ... a black land raider!Me!4. Sanguinary Guard, who likes them?They are brilliant, especially the psyker ones. AV13 on a walker is top notch, as they can't be hurt by S6!5. Furioso. I'm gonna need every bit of help here, since I'm more experienced with the standard dread.Depends, do you want assault or shooting terminators? If you go assault, Land Raider. Shooty, Deep strike.6. I wanted to have at least a squad of terminators. How should I equip them, and should they deep strike in or ride in a land raider?Good, but put a heavy flamer or two in there too as they're dangerous assault weapons - and make sure they're combi-meltas so you don't lose your special ammo (i usually have my whole squad armed with combi-weapons aside from the heavy flamers)7. Sternguard with a power fist, tons of melta weapons, in a drop pod. Good or bad idea?If you want them to travel with an assault squad, I'd say it's essential!8. Is it a good idea to strap jump packs on Sanguinary priests?Too expensive. Sanguinary Guard and Honour Guard are better.9. Vanguard?They make an excellent complement to any army.10. Was looking at tornados and typhoons. Thoughts?Yup - scout, and the fact the assault and flamerstorm cannons are more useful than autocannons.11. Any reason why I should take a Baal over a standard pred?Bike squads maybe - they can keep up with anything, and pack a lot of firepower, but not scout bikers.12. Are bike squads, including scout, useful to a Blood Angels list?Vindicator!13. Should I use up a slot for a standard dread, or just use predators/vindicators?Sanguinor always makes his points back for me (especially if the enemy has an expensive HQ)14. Despite their post cost, are any of the "special" characters good?
Lemartes is a lovely addition to a DC squad.
Seth is great anti-horde
Memphiston scares people and draws a lot of fire!
Not tried the others yet.That depends on which you like more - surefire jumping and an extra power, or the points? Me I prefer the jump pack as if he fails his PP test then the squad he's with gets slowed down.15. I was aiming for 2 reclusiarchs, or a reclusiarch and a librarian, for my HQ choices. Is it a good idea to strap a jump pack on a librarian or use its "wings" power?
Hope that helps
How is it possible to need help with the BA codex? It's cheese from cover to cover, unless you bend over backwards to make poor choices.
IG since 1999 __ DA since 2002 __ Tau since 2005 __ SoB since 2007
Brets 1997-1999 __ TK since 2009 __ Empire since 2010
I love military men, don't you? *pushs him out of the armored transport*
I'm not for the term "cheese", as I guess its used too often ... Say every time a new codex comes out.
The blood angels are a pure assault force to a fault ... such as keeping them at "arm's length" with anti-troop and anti-tank fire.
As I said in an earlier post, I've played "vanilla" marines for such a LONG time. In time, I developed some strong, negative views on squad/vehicle usage ( ei. jump pack troops are too freaking fragile ).
After my "shopping" theropy at a GW store, it was time to play a different marine force ... an jump pack force ... spurred on by the zillion of assault troop boxes I brought home.
So if there is anymore advice/help out there, about the Blood Angels, please let me know.
In the meantime, I'll be scrapping the "cheese" off my codex ...
Nah...the test of cheese is whether or not it's still considered cheese two or three codexes down the road (dual lash? lost and damned dual buried powerfist? flying circus? Eldrad plus another farseer churning five powers a turn? C:UM drop pod rush?) I suspect that several aspects of BA will still fit the bill for a long time to come.
How does my form of employment have anything to do with my low opinion of the BA codex (SW is even worse!)?
IG since 1999 __ DA since 2002 __ Tau since 2005 __ SoB since 2007
Brets 1997-1999 __ TK since 2009 __ Empire since 2010
This will be about 90% personal opinion but I hope it helps.I've got a verry assault heavy army and it does the job nicely, the best tip I can give is, don't do things by halfs, a handful of assault troops on their own will get picked off before they get any use, a large number of them can be highley flexible and dam-right killy.How would a force around jump pack marines do?My assault squads are great for taking objectives, their speed and range lets me grab open objectives on the last turn, rush to take an objective from an enemy unit or rush in for the contest. Drop pods are immobile, no flexabilerty and are basicley a free kill point.Can I capture and hold objectives, or am I better off with tactical squads in drop pods for that?Honestly, I'm not a big fan of Death Company, the Black Rage means your aponent will have as much control over them as you do. If you want DC defenatley get a transport with assault doors, a landraider of stormraven would do the job but personally I'd give it to something else.How would I use a sqaud of Death Company? Jump packs are too expensive, so I was thinking of a transport ... a black land raider!Hell yeah! Terminators with wings.Sanguinary Guard, who likes themYou might be tempted by the librarian upgrade, don't do it! Blood Talons with unlimited attacks are freaking awesome! If you have lucky dice you can mince your way through an entire horde.Furioso. I'm gonna need every bit of help here, since I'm more experienced with the standard dread.I recomend assault termies in a stormraven. The stormraven can also take your furioso, this is the best way to get your furioso in combat where it belongs and the combination of a squad of termies and a furioso assaulting at the same time is insane. Nothing ever survives!I wanted to have at least a squad of terminators. How should I equip them, and should they deep strike in or ride in a land raider?Sounds like a good killy unit but it seems a bit slow and immobile, also, it's got a verry short effective range. I wouldn't recomend it.Sternguard with a power fist, tons of melta weapons, in a drop pod. Good or bad ideaHow ever you gear up the rest of your army, do the priests to match. If you do go for an assaulty army and want priests, assault packs are a must.Is it a good idea to strap jump packs on Sanguinary priestsI'd go for honour guard instead, they cost the same, have the same gear options and come with a free sangunary priest. They do lack the heroic intervention rule but get a few extra options to make up for it.Vanguard?Not my thing but can't say anything bad about them, great for tank hunting.Was looking at tornados and typhoons. Thoughts?It realy depends what you're looking for. If you want ranged firepower that can sit at the back of the board and take out enemy armour, go for the standard pred. If you want something to come up with your assault troops and give them fire surport, go for a baal. I'm a baal fan myself, the things are good and killy.Any reason why I should take a Baal over a standard pred?Never used scout bikers but I don't hear many good things about them, bikers on the other hand are sweet. The speed and flexabilerty of assault troops, not as good in combat but make up for it with increased fire power.Are bike squads, including scout, useful to a Blood Angels list?If you want something shooty to stand at the back and pick off armour it's a good cheap option. Myself, I'd pick it over a standard pred and I'd just never waste mt points on a vindi.Should I use up a slot for a standard dread, or just use predators/vindicators?Mephiston is a carnifex in power armour, he can and will cut a monolith in half. Verry intimidating, drews lots of enemy fire. The sanuginor isn't quite as killy but has pretty much the same effect. Dante is a great HQ choice for an assault heavy army and has some fairley sweet special rules. Seth is good and killy, noting colse to mephiston but much better value for money.Despite their post cost, are any of the "special" characters good?The reclusiarchs are a good choice. If you plan to attach your librarian to an assault squad defenatley get a jump pack, you can't always rely on the "wings" and if you do that just means you can't use any other power that turn.I was aiming for 2 reclusiarchs, or a reclusiarch and a librarian, for my HQ choices. Is it a good idea to strap a jump pack on a librarian or use its "wings" power?
Hope this helped.
1.) Jump Pack Marines + Storm Raven Rocks, plus you can Lug a Dread into the enemy
2.) Tacticals in Rhono or Razorback is better, that way if you need to move or Contest the rhino/razor can always leave you to.
3.) Best to use transport for them and not Jump packs, or they will chase enemy around, sucks to have someone fleet of footing you around outter board edge, a Tak you can drive any where it doesnt have Black Rage.
4.) there nice but expencive for what they do, they do count as troops if have dante though, Honor guard is Probly better and it has its own Priest with Feel no Pain, etc.
5.) Furious Dread + Blood Talons (Every Unsaved wound = 1 Additional Attack) & Grapple (Yank Vehicles off Objectives or Over the enemys own Troops)
6.) Terminators well if there shooty terms Deep strike is fine, I prefer Assaulty and in LR so they can Assault out. PS dont forget the chaplin Term for reroll Hits.
7.) Stern Guard, melta weaponed Out, droop pod in near enemy, split in to 2 combat squads and cool Vehicles, is ok , better for Vulkan army so its twin Linked.
8.) Priest in Jump pack, well you have to if hes in assault squad or sang. guard who have them so he can keep up.
9.) Vanguard: a good way to get Fast attack choice, cant take Objectives, Rather use reg Assault sqaud with Priest or chaplin
10.) Typhoon is good at Long range Missles, But its small template and it scatters, Rifle Dread be better. or Devistators. Speeders are paper airplanes.
11.) Baals ROCK, twin Linked assault canonns are the Bomb! you shoot at troops something is going to Die !
12.) Scouts are fun and they can give vehicles scout move when enter also off table edges, say a Stormraven with Dread even.
13.) I like Dread, but I also Like Vindicators, Most cases I take dread over Pred, it cant hit back if assaulted.
14.) yeh lots are! Corbulo will let you reroll any dice roll 1 time a game, from reserves, to Taking wound roll. and Dante is just meean in Hand to hand, plus he doesnt Scatter when deep strikes and can Hit and Run. Lemartes if takes wound str & Atks gain +5
15.) Librarians are HQ so you can only have 1-2 HQ Choices, not counting Librarian Dreads which can Fly and around with wings and just hurt the enemy, but if want 2 other Powers then use a Jump pack, Jump Pack = 12" + 6 inch run or assault = 18* but Bike can take him 24" give him Cover save and raise his toughness +1.
Last edited by 40KJeff; September 18th, 2010 at 02:17.
every thing twin-linked. bet you didnt complain the 2 years or so the SM codex was out and our LRs couldnt even Machine spirit or anything like a Reg Codex one, I had 1 max 10 man DC company with Feel no pain against a horde o Orc boyz all with feel no pain and most 2 wounds.