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Now I'm an oldschool IG player. Returning to IG after a 5 year rein of terror with my Dark Eldar. And the words squadron of tanks made my eyes light up, and made me a little moist if I'm honest.
Now I can't see battle tanks or their shorter/longer range equivalent doing so well in squadrons at 1000-1500 (even 1750) as the power out put is overkill and losing a whole tank from immobilisation is a risk.
As guard players in 5th what vehicles own the board in squadrons.
My first thought is the trusty old basilisks, but again overkill with pie plate concentration and why not do the same thing with a single manticore.
I'm liking the prospect of a squadron of Hydras, very cheap, same output as an exterminator (half the cost) and good against jetbikes..... [well, only DE jetbikes because every other one in the game has a 3+ AS from my findings]
Vendetta's, again more than 3 TL-LC's is overkill again and a waste of power output if you can't split fire.
If anyone does have a tank heavy force, fill me in on you FOC set up.
It depends how you view the role of your tanks. Personally I see them as a fire magnet for my chimeras. I've tried squadroning a pair of Demolishers and it's quite good. You want to use 2 because then you can pop smoke on one and have both gain cover saves, or even better, straddle a building or other obstacle and screen out enemy fire to one of the tanks, then both can shoot.
Obviously you loose 50% of your firepower but it lets you really stick the tanks up in the enemy's face. AT Shots against AV14 PLUS a 4+ cover save makes me very happy. Lascannons tend to ping off rather than slagging Chimeras etc.
Copy, Improve, Innovate
I would think hydra's and griffons since they are inexpensive if they are lost. I am tempted to try the squadroned demolishers though.
Griffon + Collosus
Here's my tactic:
I take two single tanks and one squadron of two. That way, if there's a target that would "benefit" from getting hit with more than one pieplate, I have that option, while targets that can be adequately serviced with one pieplate get hit with one of my singletons. But you'll almost never have multiple such targets (TMCs? ~10 MEQs in cover?) on the board simultaneously...so you wouldn't getnearly as much benefit from multiple squadrons. One, yes, more, no. I think that gives me the best balance between the advantages (more killyness) of having more than three tanks and the downside of squadron rules (no independent targeting, immobilized=destroyed).
That's pretty much it for proper tanks. I would support the idea of sentinel squadrons and griffon squadrons...not so sure about hydras. IIRC, like all other squadrons, they don't get independent targeting...if that's true, three hydras shooting at one skimmer is ridiculous overkill...seems like they'd only be points-efficient as a squadron in their secondary role (shooting troops and TMCs)
IG since 1999 __ DA since 2002 __ Tau since 2005 __ SoB since 2007
Brets 1997-1999 __ TK since 2009 __ Empire since 2010
Marnepup, out of curiosity, what tanks do you take for what you just described? I actually like the idea of 1 squad and 2 unsquadded (word???) tank groups. As far as the Hydras go, I think a squadron of three would proabaly be overkill in almost all situations, but I am going to try a squad of 2 next time I play...I think that might be a good option.
I think putting tanks with large pie plates together isn't such a terrible idea; The Griffon especially. Remember these things scatter on our BS of 3, and barrage weapons scatter the full total. After that template placement is off the original. A few lucky rolls and 3 griffons or medusas could be hitting and killing quite a bit from multiple squads in proximity to each other but are still fairly cheap. Keeping the slots open for other things to be used on their own. (I'm picturing three templates from griffons landing in a row across half of someone's entire battle line)
Indirect fire from a battery of griffons would have to fire as a barrage anyway which helps to maximise clustering.
Copy, Improve, Innovate
I regularly squadron 3 Hydras together for extreme devastation. From my experience I'll put together a quick list of pros and cons for you.
- Lots and lots of STR 5 and 7 shots with AP 4 and great range
These facts allow for all of the other advantages
- Assured destruction of light vehicles/transports ("overkill" means "guarantee" to me)
It is VERY advantageous to have a unit that will bring down that transport full of nasty close combat specialists practically without fail. Getting 5 penetrates and 3 glances on a Rhino full of Death Company on the first turn can really help out down the road.
- Can mess up AV 12
While I will agree that a full squadron of Hydras is almost too much against AV 10 and 11, it seems just right against AV 12. It is pretty common to get a couple glances and penetrates in one round of shooting. Good chance of disabling or destroying it.
- Can completely wipe out squads of light infantry
If caught out of cover, 9 heavy bolter shots and 12 twin-linked autocannon shots will just obliterate infantry with 4+ or worse armor saves. We're talking full squads removed from the table in one shooting phase.
- Can stack wounds on Monstrous Creatures
Forcing 9 saves or so on an MC per turn will QUICKLY bring them down. Failing 4 out of 9 3+ saves can and does happen all the time, which will kill a Carnifex or Hive Tyrant in a single shooting phase, given a bit of luck (failing just one more save than average)
- Can force saves on every model in a 10-man MEQ squad
With the amount of lead coming out of the Hydras, It's easy to put 10 wounds on a Tactical Squad or something similar. This means that each individual model has to take its own armor save, often killing the heavy or special weapon trooper off, or the sergeant with powerfist. I have actually unloaded on a Grey Hunter squad before, and he failed 3 saves out of 10. The 3 failed saves just so happened to be on both of his melta gunners and his sergeant with frost axe, leaving him with a squad of 7 bolter marines.
- Area Denial
It is a foolish general indeed that puts vulnerable or valuable targets within the Hydras' line of sight. You can heavily influence your opponent's deployment and his movement throughout the game with the position of your Hydra Squadron, especially when up against more fragile armies.
- More cheap AV 12 hulls that your opponent has to deal with
This advantage helps out defensively. While AV 12 is not that hard to get through, it is not the easiest either, especially when in multiples. At only 75 points each, this helps out with armored target saturation and redundancy. Sending a couple krak missiles or lascannon shots their way is simply not going to cut it. It will take some serious dedicated anti-tank fire to silence all 3 Hydras, which may otherwise go toward your Chimeras that are trying to reach objectives or other targets.
- Downsides of Squadroning
They all have to fire on the same target, and immobilizes equal wrecks. But, as explained above, the advantages are so massive as to almost make these non-issues.
They must remain still to fire at full effect, making them vulnerable to assaulters. With good deployment, their extended range, and a defensive screen of infantry, this can be avoided as well.
At 225 points for a full squadron, they are easily the most points-efficient unit in the IG codex, with probably Vendettas taking second place. In games of 1500 or more, I don't leave home without them.
Last edited by slobulous; October 23rd, 2010 at 19:09.
I WANNA GET STUCK IN WIT DA BOYZ
I couldn't agree more! The Hydra sounds like a perfect use of the full squadron.
I love the mentality of Overkill just means guaranteed.
In one game a couple of friends of mine were having one got 81 shots from his tau gunline and ended up with 3...yes 3 wounds against a black templar army. We're talking more ones being rolled than you've ever seen.
Just goes to show, you can never have too much firepower