Unstoppable Eldar Unit! Help! - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Member hydrashok's Avatar
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    Unstoppable Eldar Unit! Help!

    Yesterday I had the misfortune of coming up against an Eldar unit that just plain dumbfounded me. It was a Farseer with fortune, doom, spirit stones, mounted on a jet bike accompanied by a ten man seer council. Each member of the Seet Council was mounted on a jet bike with nine of them given the destructor power and one of them given the empower power. Each member of that 11 man squad also had a wytch weapon and of course a wraith bone breastplate. This means that the squad could turbo-boost and receive a MEQ cover save as well as having an MEQ base armor save on top of a scout squad level invulnerable save. The farseer was also sure to cast fortune on that squad every turn allowing them to re-roll any failed save of their choice. Mounting the entire squad on jet bikes also increased the entire squads toughness by one. Even worse, if they didn't turbo boost, because they were on Eldar jet bikes they got the added bonus of being able to move during the assault phase whether or not they assaulted. All this together meant that when they encountered a vehicle they assaulted it with their wytch weapons giving them the same strength as a lascannon and when they encountered infantry their 9 destructor templates turned them into ash. Now I know what you are going to say, why didn't you just engage them in close combat? My answer to you is this, you try catching a unit that can move 24" a turn with any assault capable unit in your army. The only thing I could think of was a deep striking unit of vanguard vets that can assault the turn they arrive. Alas, my army list didn't have one and by the time I knew what he was bringing it was too late. So my question to you is this: Even though the unit was almost 800 points, how do I stop him from assaulting/destructoring and thereby destroying a unit of my army every turn from turn 2 onwards?


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  3. #2
    Son of LO Polaria's Avatar
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    720 (x8)

    Take double Librarians for your own HQ choices and take Null Zone for both. Use Psychic Hood to torpedo Farseers Fortune and then Null Zone around both Libbies. Suddenly the Farseer councils ubersave is reduced to 4++ with reroll-any-succesfull-saves and you can bolter their puny T4 asses down with ease.
    Revenant Moon Necrons: (W/L/D) 0/1/0 (6th edition: 13/2/2)(5th edition: 14/6/4)(3rd edition Codex: 16/4/7)
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  4. #3
    Member hydrashok's Avatar
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    Great idea with the librarians. I agree that the two librarians would shut down fortune pretty effectivly. However, null zone will only affect his invulnerable save which still leaves the Marine equivalent base armor save as well as the Marine equivalent cover save if he turbo-boosted. That means that if he turbo-boosted the only thing that will deny his Marine equivalent saves is a Land Raider Reedeemer, which would be his likely first target if I ever brought one. But maybe if I make one of the librarians an Epistolary and atach him to a unit of sternguard so that he can infinity gate and then null zone while the sternguard rapid fire vengenance rounds into them on a turn they didn't turbo boost. That would leave him with a scout squad equivalent save that he would be forced to re-roll. Thanks for the great feedback!

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    Hello battle brother. I had the same problem with this Eldat unit recently. I'm plying Templars. The only way to defeat this unit is to force the Eldar player to take lots of saving throughs every turn. Librarians will help you but it's not the solution. Statistically if the Eldar player takes 10 saving throws he will succed 5 then the Librarian counter ability will have him reroll these 5 and make them 3. After that he will reroll 7 saves and have 3 to 4 succeses. So if you did not use the Librarian ability he would save 8 now he will save 7.
    Though if you force him to take about 20 to 25 saving throws he will loose more. This is easy if you filed Devastators with H.Bolters and Missile Launcers(Frag Shot). This will help you boost the Librarian Ability and cause more wounds. Beware though cause farseers counter enemy -evil - Sorcery and you will have to succed the Ld check rolling 3D6.
    The choice is yours use librarians and have them commit suicide cause of the 3D6 Ld check or use weapons that will cause him to take more saving throws?
    I solved the Farseer problem in close combat, I threw 2 squads of Assault marines each numbering 8 models and 10 tactical marines all with the preffered enemy skill due to the emperors champion. I lost all my tacticals and about 10 assault marines.

  6. #5
    Member hydrashok's Avatar
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    I figured that assault was the way to go. How did you catch him when he can turbo-boost. You must have grabbed him after he finished assaulting and could only consolidate. Ever since the new space marine codex I have shied away from dev squads. They made them so expensive, although if they can knock down some of his uber unit of doom then they must be worth it. Thanks for the help!

  7. #6
    Son of LO Polaria's Avatar
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    720 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackTemplarGR View Post
    Librarians will help you but it's not the solution. Statistically if the Eldar player takes 10 saving throws he will succed 5 then the Librarian counter ability will have him reroll these 5 and make them 3. After that he will reroll 7 saves and have 3 to 4 succeses. So if you did not use the Librarian ability he would save 8 now he will save 7.
    This is why you need to use Psychic Hood beforehand to kill the Fortune power. He only gets to reroll those failed 7 saves if he has Fortune power on.


    Quote Originally Posted by BlackTemplarGR View Post
    The choice is yours use librarians and have them commit suicide cause of the 3D6 Ld check or use weapons that will cause him to take more saving throws?
    Well, with Ld 10 check the 3D6 is hardly automatic suicide for the Libby. And Libby only costs 100 points or so. Which is equal to 5 tactical marines with bolters. Even within Rapid Fire distance that is only 3 additional saves for the Eldars... Hardly solves anything as long as Eldar gets to keep his 4++ with re-roll failed.
    Revenant Moon Necrons: (W/L/D) 0/1/0 (6th edition: 13/2/2)(5th edition: 14/6/4)(3rd edition Codex: 16/4/7)
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    Black Legion: (W/L/D) 1/0/0 (6th edition: 2/3/0)
    Something Wicked... Reikwald Beastmen: (W/L/D) 10/4/1

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    Member hydrashok's Avatar
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    I have an important question. The Eldar player in question claimed that because he purchased an Eldar jetbike for each model that it confered a 3+ base armor save on top of the invulnerable save confered from their wraithbone curass. Is this true?

    Edit: Just borrowed my buddy's codex. It does indeed lower their base armor save to 3+.
    Last edited by hydrashok; November 1st, 2010 at 13:44.

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    Aye, jetbike warlock/farseer has 3+/4++
    Generally a librarian will shut them down. Prevent fortune and they'll flop dead, no need to bother with null zone.
    You can torrent of fire them, or more reliably assault. Witchblades are not power weapons, so you'll get your armour saves and any feel no pain rolls your might have. At t3 w3, the best way to take out a farseer is instant death. Put your fist against him and/or thunderhammers etc and 1 failed save will kill him. Once the seer's dead (and the unit no longer has fortune) they will fold quickly.

    Alternatively, don't kill them. Just tar pit them. That unit is around 600 points. Just feed him a big unit and let that 600 point sit there slowly chewing thru a 10 man tac or assault squad, which you capitalise on that extra 400 point elsewhere on the field.

    Also BlackTemplarGR has his order wrong for null zone rerolls. There's no reason that the order would be:
    Roll saves > reroll successful > reroll all failed.
    The rerolls are all done at the same time, so:
    Roll saves > reroll everything.
    Most people just roll the dice once as the rerolls essentially nullify each other.

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    Member hydrashok's Avatar
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    I completely agree with eris and polaria that assault is the way to go. Ironically enough, last game he ended up killing more of his own unit then me and my team mate did. To put more perspective on this, I was playing a 1000 point game per player with myself and an Mechanized Imp. Guard player against an Eldar and Tau force. He ended up losing more models causing explosions on the vehicles he assaulted then we managed to kill with a direct hit from a Leman Russ Demolisher and a Vindicator as well as a heavy flamer equipped Chimera!

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    Quote Originally Posted by eris View Post
    Aye, jetbike warlock/farseer has 3+/4++
    Also BlackTemplarGR has his order wrong for null zone rerolls. There's no reason that the order would be:
    Roll saves > reroll successful > reroll all failed.
    The rerolls are all done at the same time, so:
    Roll saves > reroll everything.
    Most people just roll the dice once as the rerolls essentially nullify each other.
    So if this is the way the spells react Librarians are uselless. If he rerolls all then stats remain the same. So the way is either shoot them with everything you have and have them roll lots of saves or assault them. In any case rolling lots of saves this edition is better than roll one from a lascannon, IMHO. 4+ cover save is to much...

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