Which is better for the Dark Angels; Ravenwing, Deathwing, or neither? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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View Poll Results: Which is best for Dark Angels?

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  • Deathwing

    5 33.33%
  • Ravenwing

    8 53.33%
  • basic DA list

    2 13.33%
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  1. #1
    Senior Member Taubeast's Avatar
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    Which is better for the Dark Angels; Ravenwing, Deathwing, or neither?

    My friend got the DA codex because of the fluff, but then found that he couldn't decide what type of army is best. What do you all think? What is the best Dark Angels army list? Example lists will be greatly appreciated.

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  3. #2
    LO Zealot watchwood's Avatar
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    I would direct him to the option you didn't offer - both. Deathwing/Ravenwing hybrids are a solid list.

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    Currently i think Ravenwing are the better choice of the 2, althougha Mix is also great as mentioned above.

    the reasosn are:

    Deathwing are sort of impotent in terms of the gear they have vs normal marine codex.

    Storm shields are 5+ invuln not 3+, Cyclone missile launchers fire 1 shot not 2 and the apothercary does not give them feel no pain.

    Whilst its nice to be able to mix and match CC and guns in a Unit it doesnt always play out too well on the battlefield.

    with Ravenwing you have a good amount of flexibility in terms of killpoints or sieze ground missions 6 bikes and an attack bike can be 1 unit or 3 depending on your needs, and can be bolstered with a troops-choice landspeeder

    you can also get first turn combat in a lot of games, with a free 12" scout move (or 24" if you want to turbo-boost you can really get in the opponents face quickly.

    a toughness 5 army, which re-rolls almost all of its to hit rolls and is fearless can be very very fun to play, but with either option you will end up fielding less models than your opponent, and need to protect them.

  5. #4
    Senior Member Taubeast's Avatar
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    By a hybrid Deathwing/Ravenwing list, do you mean that either can be a troop choice?
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    Deathwing, Ravenwing or mix is the way to go, or so I'm told. I chose DA as my first army because of the fluff but quickly found them underwhelming compared to the normal Space Marine codex. If your friend finds out he doesn't like one of those options, I would suggest just using the normal marines codex with Dark Angel models.

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    Just to fix something, vehicles with scout can move their max normal distance, so for a fast vehicle like a land speeder that's 18" not 12".

  8. #7
    Son of LO praxis's Avatar
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    I voted Ravenwing, but totally agree with previous posters advising using the space marine codex until the DA get an update. Have a look at the Ravenwing box set if your after a bargain.
    Jager bombs. Very efficient at wiping out friend or foe.

  9. #8
    Son of LO Marnepup's Avatar
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    Do you even own the DA codex, let alone play the army???

    Quote Originally Posted by kloma View Post
    Currently i think Ravenwing are the better choice of the 2, althougha Mix is also great as mentioned above.

    the reasosn are:

    Deathwing are sort of impotent in terms of the gear they have vs normal marine codex.

    Storm shields are 5+ invuln not 3+ um, no, they're 4+ , Cyclone missile launchers fire 1 shot not 2 only matters if you use CMLs... and the apothercary does not give them feel no pain. but he does save plasma wounds (the bane of termies!), and I wasn't aware that C:UM terminators could field an apothecary anyway

    Whilst its nice to be able to mix and match CC and guns in a Unit it doesnt always play out too well on the battlefield. It does for me. complex squads ensure that every squad I own always has the right tool for the job, and the model with the least situationally appropriate gear becomes the first casualty
    with Ravenwing you have a good amount of flexibility in terms of killpoints or sieze ground missions 6 bikes and an attack bike can be 1 unit or 3 depending on your needs, and can be bolstered with a troops-choice landspeeder Wrong. The attack bike cannot be folded into the squadron, it's always deployed separately. And you'd almost never benefit from combat squadding the six regular bikes, three wounds is just too fragile...so you're looking at the same number of kill points in practice regardless of whether it's a KP or OBJ mission.
    you can also get first turn combat in a lot of games, with a free 12" scout move (or 24" if you want to turbo-boost you can really get in the opponents face quickly. Wrong again. C: DA specifically states that ravenwing may not turbo boost when conducting their scout move. That said, ravenwing are very much able to get locked in assault on turn one when they want to, since they effectively have a 30" charge range when you add in the 12" scout move. Unless you're doing it to let newly DWAed termies sort themselves out unmolested, or you're multicharging a couple units of guard or tau, I can't imagine when you'd rather assault than shoot with ravenwing, though...
    a toughness 5 army, which re-rolls almost all of its to hit rolls and is fearless can be very very fun to play, but with either option you will end up fielding less models than your opponent, and need to protect them. rerolls to hit rolls? You can only be talking about twinlinked bolters...which is hardly something to brag about on a 40 point model. And the weapons that count, the special weapons and the attack bikes, aren't twinlinked.
    Black/white is probably the best way to go, with one and only one squadron of ravenwing, and the rest of the army (three squads) deathwing. That about fills up 1350 points, and it allows you to scout move the attack bike and the six regular bikes separately, then drop eleven of your sixteen terminators in the enemy deployment zone without scatter on turn one, then immediately charge with the bikes to not only prevent a charge against the terminators before they've had a chance to get themselves organized, but also probably block some LOS in order to reduce the amount of shooting that they'll face. You've effectively put 1100ish tough as nails points in the enemy's face on turn one, and you have exactly the right size of reserve (one 250 point squad of termies) left to come in later, either where they're needed most, or more likely, to walk on and claim a near objective uncontested while the enemy is tied up fending off the bulk of your force in his own deployment zone. I've gone away from that model, though, it went 23-2-1, which is great, but the average wristwatch has enough artificial intelligence to win with that list, it always plays out the same way, which is pretty boring. The rest of my army consisted of an interrogator chaplain on a bike and two vennie dreads.

    These days, I play either 5th company (OMG, green DA??!?) or mechanized deathwing. The mechwing consists of three squads, three assorted land raiders, and two HQ characters. It's tough as nails, but takes the model count shortage of deathwing to an extreme (20 models for 1750 points). In 1850, I'll scrape together the points for a dread, hide a whirlwind behind the mars-pattern land raider, or take a tornado.
    Last edited by Marnepup; November 30th, 2010 at 21:14.
    IG since 1999 __ DA since 2002 __ Tau since 2005 __ SoB since 2007
    Brets 1997-1999 __ TK since 2009 __ Empire since 2010

  10. #9
    Son of LO Marnepup's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taubeast View Post
    By a hybrid Deathwing/Ravenwing list, do you mean that either can be a troop choice?
    Not necessarily. Some people do that, but it requires you to take both sammy and bels, and that's a TON of points, although it does allow you to field both special apothecaries, which is nice. I'd only do that in large (2500 points and above) games. black/white, or deathraven, really just means that you're using both ravenwing and deathwing in one army list, generally without any of the "green" choices. The synergy is that every RW bike has a teleport homer, so your deepstriking termies don't scatter, which is especially useful if you're using deathwing assault, since it allows you to put half of your reserve termie squads (rounded up) just outside the enemy deployment zone without scattering on turn one (12" scout move plust the 6" range of the telehomer, plus a smidgeon less than the diameter of two terminator bases equals ~21"). Often in heavy flamer range. There is also talk about termies being fighty and bikes being shooty, but I've found that the best synergy is to send a multimelta attack bike off tank hunting while a squadron of six bikes guides the termies in, then moves 12" and assaults 6" to keep the enemy too busy to do anything about the 600 points worth of termies on their doorstep. On turn two, even if the bikes are dead (being fearless, all you have to do to ensure that they don't die on the charge if you're worried about it is ensure that one bike is "out" of the combat by not being within 2" of a model in base to base contact with the enemy. Even if you lose, all that happens is the enemy consolidates in on that bike and has to finish it off on his turn), you have two squads of terminators free to move, shoot, and assault. In the enemy deployment zone.

    Anyway, the talk of power armored dark angels being weak compared to C:UM is a little overblown. It's the whole "the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence" thing. IIRC, C:UM doesn't get table-wide LD10 out of its captains. C:UM doesn't get table-wide psychic hoods. C:UM apothecaries give FNP, true, but ours save plasma wounds, which isn't as good, but certainly isn't chopped liver, either. DA smoke nets you a -2 on the damage table instead of a 4+ save...oh, but if you're actually in cover, you get both. And nothing puts a bigger grin on my face than having 2/3 of all damaging hits (half if AP1) reduced to stunned or shaken. Most of the other differences are pretty situational. If you're not a big dreadnought fan, do you care that DA don't get some of the more unusual varieties-we do get three vennies, thoug (I think it's insulting that the chapter that invented the mortis dread can't field it) We don't get vanguard or sternguard, but we do get far more tactically flexible veteran squads that can be equally adept at shooting or assaulting. Our scouts are elites instead of troops, but they have better stats to go with their elite status (not to mention S4 shotguns). I'm not at all saying that C: DA is as powerful as C:UM (and the other recently updated flavor chapters are head and shoulders above), but I am saying that the codex bashers refuse to acknoledge those areas where DA has an advantage, or even where the DA disadvantage isn't as great as it might seem. You can be very successful with green DA using the proper codex if you get past the bellyaching stage and set your mind to the task of succeeding in spite of all the handicaps GW threw our way.
    Last edited by Marnepup; November 30th, 2010 at 21:42.
    IG since 1999 __ DA since 2002 __ Tau since 2005 __ SoB since 2007
    Brets 1997-1999 __ TK since 2009 __ Empire since 2010

  11. #10
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    Hmm, rep for you. That post made me curious to get the Dark Angel codex. Of all the established chapters I enjoyed the Dark Angel's story the most. And so my marines are painted as Dark Angels. But when I came to buying a Codex I bought C:UM instead as I heard CA was outdated and bad.

    Maybe I missed a trick there.

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