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Hi, Im new to 40K, hell, Im new to tabeltop wargaming all together... I have AoBR which I'm currently painting, and havn't really had a proper game yet, but I have always been drawn to Witch Hunters as a main amy (have been looking at the GW website long befroe I bought AoBR)
and I really need help starting.
So what Im asking is; are Witch Hunters difficult to start/ play? I see all this 'faith' stuff, does it get confusing??
and after a bit of looking around I have decided on an army sort of like this=
Inquisitor lord and retiune (GW box set)
2 squads of SoB and 2 immolators to take them in.
2 penitent engines
I was thinking to slowly build up a force like that, but starting with the smaller force of the SoB Inquitor lord & retinue seraphims and one penitent engines and building up the the main army list from there
ANY help is appreciated, if Ive broken any GW or forum rules tell me please.
Thanks in advance
Aside from unit limitations the main restriction you will find is range - 12" out is good, practically base to base is better, but close combat is mostly a holding action and anything over 12" is also a wash (other than the exorcist launcher).
WH armies are a learning experience for both sides - it'll take you a while to get used to but it's possible your opponents won't know what to expect either.
Don't get too carried away with them - rending bolters are still only an extra couple of wounds most times, 3+ invs are still 3+ saves on T3 models. They can give you an edge at the right moment or blunt an opponent but you still need to have your ducks in a row - they won't win you anything by themselves.
If you arn't intent on him for heavy weapons, psyhoods, or a landraider consider the canoness instead.
Always take a superior, two special weapons (not stormbolters), and don't weigh the squad down with too much baggage - grenades don't really help you and the imagifer is less useful than you might think.
Remember that you need a priest to use them, and that the priest must be attatched to a unit or IST. Priests are basically a disadvantage to any unit other than repentia - which is a shame as a celestian squad might actually be able to make use of him if they had any CC options to speak of.
Beware really heavy armour as the missiles have a hard time against it.
Good luck with your force. Try to keep your sisters together supporting one another and play them aggressively - pushing forwards. You may want to consider IST or inducted guard to hold objectives, are you using the book or the PDF?
And is there anywhere that explains faith? I can't seem to find a good explenation to read through and its extremely rare to find any videos on WH's at all...
The revised list then I suppose would be the canoness, who I have seen alot of looking around now actually
2 SoB squads (can one of them take the priest for the Penitent engines>)
Maybe remove one penitent engine, just have one and take dreadnaught instead so
one Penitent and one dread, is this possible?
The seraphim squad
and I seem to (except the exorcist) not have much power in this army, is it possible to Induct grey knights in here or would I have to get rid of the SoB's?
and of course the exorcist which I would add later on
Thanks for all the help so far, I really appreciate it
If your local players are ok with it then take a look at the imperial armour 2 pdf update from the forgeworld website. It updates rhino, chimera, and landraider costs and rules to 5th edition, though with the side effect of making immolators and exorcists more expensive through EA increases.
If you are expecting strong statlines, big guns, and neat toys - well that's not the sisters.
Pretty much all of faith... Its all completely lost on meIs there anything specific about it you want to know? Calculating points, how/when to roll, strategies?Is there anywhere where I can put a priest? maybe bring in a squad of inquisitorial stormtroopers and put him in there, and then could I give them a las gun or something of the sort? so they can protect the priest and take heavy armour out from afar??Be warned that priests really hurt SoB squads. You can't use a transport (because you'll be 11 strong), you can't shoot further than 12 inches (always moving), you can't shoot from closer than 6" except with special weapons (not allowed to prevent yourself from charging) and your squad still won't be any good in combat.The lasgun above would solve this problem, I wasn't after big guns and toys as much as something just to give a little extra punch than bolter fire every now and thenCan you be specific about what you are missing?
If you are expecting strong statlines, big guns, and neat toys - well that's not the sisters.Maybe later on in the point levels I shall think about GK's are drop pods allowed in a WH army? as it would be helpful to drop some GK into close combat, just to give the rest of my army more time and a bit of aidYep, you can take a GK HQ, elite choice, fast attack, and two troop units. Until the new GK codex comes out at least.
Thanks again, everything so far has been very helpful!!
You can think of faith as similar to psychic powers that can't be nullified. Individual characters trigger them with an Ld test while faithful squads will need to roll either over or under their squad size (equal to size always being a pass).
A few squads are always faithful (celestians and seraphim) while the others are only faithful while joined by a vet and/or an HQ. Adding another unit to the squad such as an inquisitor or allied GK hero renders them non-faithful.
Priests are treated like normal sisters - they don't grant the faithful status but do benefit from it. Repentia are never faithful.
The number of times you can attempt an act of faith is based on a pool of faith points - equal to one for every faithful unit or character in your army (or two points for a canoness). Adding a veteran to a faithful squad like celestians doesn't get you an extra point.
When a squad loses faithfulness (from the death of their vet, or the loss of an entire faithful unit) you gain an additional faith point to your pool (or two from a canoness).
It costs 1 faith point to attempt an act of faith regardless of whether you pass or fail. All powers except light of the emperor last for just one phase.
Faith power overview -
Hand of the Emperor
Mainly used to damage vehicle rear armour (since sisters don't normally have grenades) and to increase the strength of an eviscerator to 8 ( not 10 ).
You still use your normal init for combat resolution.
Test after you figure out how many hits you have scored, before wounds - so you don't waste a faith point if you fluffed your attacks. You'll only get a couple of AP1 hits on average and they can be stacked onto one model or away from key models due to the many non-AP1 hits you'll also score - as a result you'll typically need two squads working together to clear up a target.
Works well against high toughness / FnP units. Performance in close combat is typically very limited as sisters don't put out a lot of attacks - it's almost always better to shoot and receive a charge than charge yourself.
Increases your init, which does count towards combat resolution. Often useful for a canoness with a blessed weapon to strike at I6 (remember to take frags). Beyond that it's somewhat situational.
Light of the Emperor
Can rally your squad even if they are being escorted off the board, and may have some situational use if you are facing a target that requires difficult moral tests to deal with (though the book of st. lucius takes care of most of them).
Remember that you don't get a faith point if your unit runs off the board - so a unit that rallies and then gets killed is ultimately no net loss to you.
Spirit of the Martyr
An inv save - doesn't replace your normal save (for weapons that ignore inv saves like psycannons). Popular with 2+ save canonesses and seraphim squads - remember that you need to roll at the start of the phase and that it can cost you 3 faith points a turn (their shooting phase, their assault phase, your assault phase).
Lets you run through battlecannons as if they were frag missiles or shrug off the attacks of a monstrous creature. But remember that sisters are only T3 and only smaller squads can use this - a decent round of small arms fire or elite close combat unit will still take you out.
Spirit of the Martyr is typically the power that makes seraphim squads expensive to run as they are essentially paying 1-3 faith points a turn for stormshields.
He's also good with zealots, but they are an old white dwarf unit (basically old pistol & cc guardsmen with a few scattered eviscerators).
Any other unit he gimps. His rules prevent the firing of rapid fire weapons from further than 12" out or closer than 6" in (if you are in charge range of anything you are not allowed to shoot rapid fire to prevent a charge).
Their terminators and fast attack troops can deepstrike, but they are neither scoring nor accurate on the way down, and neither the WH nor DH books have functioning teleport homers or bonuses to reserves.
Wow, just wow.. Thank you for all of that, It still looks confusing, but atleast now its a lot clearerfaith 101.IT seems to me he just drags good units down and the only units he doesnt hinder are pretty terrible anyway... I don't know if its worth it just to field a penitent engine... there doesn't seem to be a way around the terible drawbacks... or enough good points to counter the bad :/He's good with repentia, but repentia suck.This is one of my main problems then, nothing except the exorcist seem to have anything any good for that little extra punch...ISTs don't have any long range anti-tank weapons.that seems to be those out of the window for now then...GKs don't have drop pods.
right then, so ive got in mind
2 SoB squads
The seraphim squad
and to fill the void of the penitent engine, how about an eversor assassin??
but maybe for that extra punch would Inquisitor lord karamazov on the throne of judgement be any good?? he seems to be quite powerful and daunting for anyone playing against him
Ill wrap this up shortly, Im deffiently getting more to grips with the witchhunters and you have given me much more help than I would have expected of anyone, and it is greatly appreciated
Some days it'll do all right, it's holy rage surprising an opponent. Other days you'll get it close only to have it kill the models in charge range with it's compulsory shooting. It's a real shame since it's a nice model.
But seriously, you'll get outshot by tyranids and you are mediocre at best in cc. Lots and lots of short range shooting is where it's at.
If you find you can't live without a little more ranged firepower then your choices are between IA2 update autocannon chimeras and inducted imperial guard infantry platoons.
You can take landraiders for inquisitors, but you can't put any of your close combat units (repentia and arcos) into them... and technically they aren't an assault vehicle anyway.
The callidus is easier to position - you are pretty much guaranteed to get your charge. Costs more and doesn't hit as hard as the eversor but you do get to pick your first target. It's worth noting that all assassins have suffered to pile in and targeting rule changes, they arn't what they used to be.
Also remember that the don't have frag grenades.
He doesn't really fit into a mechanised list because he can't keep up, something of a poor man's tzeentch prince. Worth a stab I suppose but better with infantry.
As a final remark - when you worry about lacking big cc units or firepower remember that sisters are a saturation force, and every 'big' unit represents a whole bunch of sisters you didn't take, a faith point you didn't generate.
A positive point to take would be this - i've played sisters for a few years now, against everything bar dark eldar and space wolves, both pure sisters mech and sister/ist/gk hybrid lists - and i've got the best record of my local group. They can hang in there pretty well and just eat away at an opponent a turn at a time, you just need to trust that there is more to a force than their stats and impressive toys.
Thanks for all of the help, I have some Ideas in my mind, Bringing quite a few SoB in... and less of the major big units...
Something else to keep in mind. A single exorcist will take the combined firepower of your opponents entire anti tank line. Especially if they've ever faced one before. One exorcist can wipe out entire nid warrior squads in a single salvo. (Instant death, no armor save, 18 wounds gone). As such a single model becomes the #1 threat on the table, and it will be dealt with swiftly.
It's usually best to take two if you can. You can use parts from whirlwinds to make them, all sorts of conversions. (Don't need to use GW's expensive model).
I find as a primary ork player, the best way to play sisters, is the exact same way you play orks. Get close, overwhelm the enemy with numbers, don't CC something that will easily obliterate you. (ie, gene stealers). When in doubt, more battle sisters. After my last few battles, I'm thinking 40-50 would work better .
Last edited by greggles; January 10th, 2011 at 19:15.