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Im just wondering. If you have a list without them please show me. i Just wrote a list in the army list section (im new it was my first list) and it got the okay with no russes. (the no its not imperial cheese one) I just want to know what you guys think.
Well, I won't chuck up list after list on here just as examples, but It is now a rare day indeed that I Include Russes in my IG lists.
I'll either go Infantry Spam
Two 5 squad infantry platoons, maybe some vets, maybe some penal squads, sly marbo, deep striking stormtroopers and two company command squads
or Buttoned up
Alot of vets in chimeras, or in vendettas with Hydras (The occasional demolisher may squeeze in here) with scout sentinals. Alot of this army starts in reserve (oh, and sly and stormtroopers again) I may add the odd "tar-pit" of a combined infantry squad depending on my mood.
Adeptus Mechanicus Marines: http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...ml#post1655065
I originally refused to read your army list since the title annoyed me with the cheese comment. I generally disdain cries of cheese, especially in 5th edition where there just don't seem to be any brokenly-powerful codices.
On to your question:
Most armies can field something competitive without using any given FOC slot. As for Russes, they are far from mandatory.
You see, it isn't about one UBER model that makes an army or a FOC slot, but a synergy to your build. Russes work well in a Mech army because they are decently powerful but also survivable with less support. The ordinance options can be way more killy than a Russ (See the Manticore and Medusa) but they are more fragile. Some are also more specific in their tasks, like the Griffons you chose (which lack duality). Guard tanks are generally best at killing infantry. It is possible to do this without using even a single heavy slot in smaller games.
The nice thing about Russes is they are newbie-friendly. They are perhaps the most forgiving model we have since they are durable AND killy. It makes then a comfortable choice when you are planning to fight unknown foes (aka a take-all-comers list).
RecklessFable's Journey to Mediocrity (Painting an IG army)
I've been addicted to World of Tanks lately and neglecting my IG... But it is so... much... fun!
As mentioned above "must have" units vary from list-to-list. If you're going for fast-deploying and attacking air cavalry methods then the slow, lumbering Russ will probably be left at the tank depot. If I know what I'll be fighting then I may drop the Russ entirely for something much more specialised (like Hydras whenever I'm fighting my Dark Eldar friend). However, an AV14 vehicle with a battlecannon and lascannon is quite a useful thing to face the unknown with. In my all-comers list I usually run two standard Russes with lascannons and an Executioner/Demolisher (no one like seeing such a tank on the field and my experience is that it'll draw an obscene amount of firepower away from softer targets). So far I've rarely ended up in a game where my tanks have failed to have an impact.
Long story short, if they mesh well with everything else and you're uncertain what enemies you'll be facing then a couple of Russes are a nice choice but are not necessary. However if they don't fit in well or if you know the enemy and can find a better answer to their threats then skip the tank.
If you simply want a pie-plate thrower to blow stuff up, then you're better off with artillery like the Manticore and Basilisk. However, if you want a big, distracting, AV 14 brick to throw in your opponent's face, shield your transports, and block line of sight, then few things work better than a Russ. Rip off those sponsons to keep your tank on the move. Read SandWyrm's blog for a comprehensive discussion on Russ tactics. The bullet point summary, however, is that if you prefer a "gunline" strategy where you sit back and pound your opponent from across the board, take artillery. If you prefer a mechanized blitzkrieg strategy, like I do, then Russes will serve you well. They are "tanks" in the MMORPG sense of the word: other things could do more damage, but Russes will always grab your opponents attention, draw their fire away from your more vulnerable transports, and block your enemy's movement. Few things are scarier to an opponent than a Demolisher coming up on his lines.
Praise the Emperor and pass the promethium!
[QUOTE=RecklessFable;1781998]I originally refused to read your army list since the title annoyed me with the cheese comment. I generally disdain cries of cheese, especially in 5th edition where there just don't seem to be any brokenly-
Yeah sorry I'm new to the guard and assumed you were all tired of the mech lists over again like I've heard about so I thought I would get more views/ feedback if you all knew it wasn't a repeat.
Russes certainly aren't necessary but I'm curious about your opposition to them. They are, after all, a signature unit of ours. Is it the appearance, or playstyle? Marines and Eldar do better at the 'fast special weapons' sort of thing, if that's what you are looking for. You can't get too far with Guard without thinking 'tank'.
"My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard
It really depends on the rest of your list.
Russes are the standard default heavy choice, but I also like manticores, griffons, and hydras, and the griffons and medusas work well in a full squadron, which russes generally don't. I have been known to take four russes, with two of them in a squadron, and the benefits outweighed the disadvantages, but any more than two in a squadron, and more than one squadron, are bad things with heavy tanks. Depending on the target, griffons are often a much better deal than russes, since you get two for one. Hydras shine against skimmers, being the bane of tau and both flavors of eldar, and not bad against orks and nids, either, although they're mediocre at best against MEQs. Manticores are just plain awesome. You only get four shots, but with multiple warheads on each missile, and the devastation that they bring, not to mention that it's foolish to bet on ANY unit getting more than four rounds of shooting in a game...
But in spite of my love for all these units, I usually just take two stock russes and one demolisher...they're just too good against too many different targets.
IG since 1999 __ DA since 2002 __ Tau since 2005 __ SoB since 2007
Brets 1997-1999 __ TK since 2009 __ Empire since 2010