Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
I have examined the options for my scouts and I have come to the conclusion that the Shotgun is the best weapon overall for these units.
Scouts are Troops choices and thus their combat role is to move and capture/hold objectives and claim table quarters as scoring units.
Bolters may be rapid weapons but to fire at full effect the troops can not charge into assault and at that range, an assault is usually imminent.
Shotguns have the same strength and authough they allow a Sv, they fire twice AND allow you to remove the momentum of an assault from your opponent and you NEVER want to be on the receiveing end of an assault, even if you're in cover.
A further advantage is the 18'' range. WAIT, but shotguns only have 12'' on their profile - you forget the 6'' of movement and this gives the shotgun a surprise factor that throws many opponents off guard as more than once I've caught an enemy scoring unit inside my maximum range because they didn't factor movement into the weapon's total range.
Pistol/CCW only allows one shot and +1 attack however, you still get +1 attack for charging into assault so a Shotgun dosn't lose that much of an advantage.
I never take heavy weapons with my scouts as they need to be moving to capture objectives and other units such as tactical can move up to hold the objective marker. The same rule applies to Missile, H. Bolter and Sniper rifles.
I do sometimes deploy 2 combat squads of five each all equiped with snipers as a purely support role, but these points and combat role can usually be filled by other units.
All in all, my scouts are mobile troops and should be equiped as such for your primary 2 troops choices and if you feel the need to use their unique weapons and options then a seperate support only squad should be created if you have the points to spare.
For the Kir'La Sept, For the Ta'Ro'Cha, For the Survival the Galaxy against the Great Devourer. - Shas'O 'Dark Fire' Skilled Tyranid Hunter.
I use my Scouts as Outflankers. 5 Man Squad with BP+CCW, Sarge with Combimelta.
They are purely there to Assault bad units near home objectives, and the Serge can shoot vehicles. Controling 12" of table on each flank on a 6"x4" table is handy and in their time they have assaulted a Necron Warrior squad and a Broadside squad and taken them out of the game.
For me, 5 extra shots before charging is in no way worth the 5 extra attacks in melee (remember that WS3 still hits pretty much everything on a 4+) because I get those attacks on my opponents turn too, and they count towards combat resolution (which is the only way I can ever kill a unit with them).
They can also go to ground in cover for a 3+ cover save which makes them less prone to being destroyed in one round by any decent shooting unit, though that's just a general Scout tip.
I personally stick them all with snipers stick them on a home objective and use them as 10 shot fence of sniper fire. Good enough to take out minor armor, and great at tearing down troops.
In terms of the comparison between shotties and pistols, it comes down to how long melee is expected to last, and what the scouts' BS is. Two shots and two swings on the charge is four attacks... OTOH, one shot and three swings is still four attacks...but in the second round of melee, the shottie scouts only get one attack appiece, versus two for the BP/CCW scouts... so the shotties could put DA scouts over the top if you're looking to break or obliterate a unit that you would hit in melee on 4s on the charge, but for any melee lasting longer than one phase, the BP/CCW is the clear winner. For C:UM scouts, BS3 eliminates any "chance to hit" advantage that shooting could have over assaulting. The raw number of attacks is the same for both options on the charge, but in any other situation, the shottie is inferior. If you're hitting on 3s in melee, then shotties have no advantage for DA and are a liability for C:UM.
/edit/ who swings first is also a factor in melee, of course...if you don't strike first, there is some advantage in shooting twice, so it really comes down to whether the combat is expected to last more than one phase. Any advantage gained by trading one swing for one shot on the charge is lost if there's a second round of melee, since the BP/CCW setup now has twice as many attacks as the shottie scouts.
Last edited by Marnepup; January 13th, 2011 at 18:22.
IG since 1999 __ DA since 2002 __ Tau since 2005 __ SoB since 2007
Brets 1997-1999 __ TK since 2009 __ Empire since 2010
Full 10 Sniper even the sarge gets it same as stated above sit on home objective and use 10 shot fence or infultrate foward and od the same / help bring termies into play (or at least thats my plan im getting back into marines after 8years of Refusing to use anything with a 3+save or better)
You guys are aware that if you fire your pistol, you can't use it to claim a bonus attack in melee, right?
I've been preaching the word of shotgun scouts for some time now - I often run 2 5 man units with a powerfist, mounted in Storm Speeders, and use them to kill tanks. Works out to be something like a 44" threat range on turn 1, IIRC.
What are you talking about? You can claim a bonus CC attack after firing your pistol. IIRC it may be different in WHFB, but in 40k it doesn't matter.
"The sergeant major asked me what my job is. I told him it's to do what I am told. He gave me a medal. I like the Imperial Guard."
"Innocentia Probat Nihil"
ummm no they are good for some rare purposes like in a land speeder storm moving around and firing but can a shotgun attempt to wound a T 6 or higher model and can it rend not allowing saves? and its range is lacking.
Space marines 6 dread army Wins: 4 ties:2 Loses:7 Modified Standard nilla marines Wins:37 Ties:8 Loses 42 Daemonhunters Wins:3 Ties:0 Loses:1 Full assualt concept army wins: 6 Ties: none Loses: 2
1) It wounds T6 and T7 on a 6+, actuallyummm no they are good for some rare purposes like in a land speeder storm moving around and firing but can a shotgun attempt to wound a T 6 or higher model and can it rend not allowing saves? and its range is lacking.
2) No, but given how many rending weapons we get anyways I don't see how that's an issue...or are you trying to refer to it's AP?
3) It's no worse then any kind of Pistol, Bolters fired while moving, meltaguns, or any of the template weapons we get access to. Especially given the mobility options that scouts get.
@Stradius - I might be thinking of an older edition of 40k or something. I coulda swore that was a rule.