Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
I am assuming at the start of this article that if you clicked on this thread then you already have your own views and opinions on "Who are the Death Korps". Hopefully some of you have even made your own Krieg armies which is great.
However I will be tackling here only the background that is presented in GW material (Not Black Library). Also I will be using the wealth of information inside the Imperial Armour books, because they are very good sources. If you disagree with what I say. Go for it. I am not the "Emperor of Facts and Canon" in the 40k universe. Who is? GW? No way. We have all seen the retconning done first hand and I hope I can get some agreement on the issue that some Black Library publishers should never be taken seriously. So feel free to comment on what YOU feel is a Death Korp army using the GW Imperial Guard codex (Current edition). I would love the input
Okay enough of that. To begin:
First I will tackle the general theme of the army. Now in this part it will be easier to list what NOT to do in a Krieg army which I hope you can all agree with are:
Bad, Naughty, No No Themes
Airborne themes (Valkyries? In my Korps? GTFO!)
Conscript rush themes (The Korps greatest feature is the level of training they impart on their soldiers. It is nearly as lethal as the Catachan treatment. Conscripts would be few and far between.)
Mechanised (Chimeras can be used in absence of Centaurs for your Grenadiers. Not for line infantry!)
Purist Human wave doctrine. (We like to think they are WW1 soldiers but they do use some modern day principles, Tanks and artillery being one of them. They need those.)
Abhumans (I know they are not based on Nazi's but I can't recall the Krieg ever using Abhumans in battle. Avoid them)
Penal Legion (They would be dead. End of. Krieg respect chain of command and if you don't you get a lasbolt in the temple)
Psykers ( I don't think the highly religious Krieg agree with using Psykers in the battlefield. These men are already stigmatised by their past enough. To even think about crossing the Imperium ever again is not in their way. Don't use them. At all. Except maybe Astropaths.)
Commissar Lords (Okay I admit, if you have a command squad then you can take a lord commissar for the sake of heroic miniatures but don't have an army led by one. If the command squad dies then the Krieg just promote the man below him to take his place. Commissars are advisors in the Krieg)
Devil Dogs (Krieg don't appreciate fast armoured warfare. Hellhounds work for them in trench warfare but using devil dogs? Bane Wolfs I can see the sense in as WW1 had chemical warfare throughout and for theme sake, the tank fits in okay But the devil dog is just counter krieg style.)
I ran out of ideas for other bad themes (usually permutations of the above) but if you think a bit we can all understand what is acceptable.
So from this we can gather that the good things in a Krieg army are:
Good, Fluffiness Themes
A good mix of Platoons and Tanks. (You want your Troops to be the majority here but you need the Tanks to deal with the big things that hinder your progress)
A simple command structure. (You need a Command squad, maybe even two BUT you must always make sure that there is a single command squad dedicated to being the Big cheese. Lieutenants keep the line troops going on the move while your big cheese draws focus to the problems and supports in removing them. If you have two Command squads, put your weak advisors in one and if you did take him, put the master of ordinance with your other. Remember a good Krieg commander leads from the back of the front, all other officers from the Front.)
Artillery. ( You need it if you want to win. Try and take heavy pieces if you can but dont be afraid in taking only a heavy mortar.)
"Get shit done" squad(s) ( Grenadiers and engineers, are vital for the Krieg armies to get the ball rolling in their advances. Grenadiers are stormtroopers and to represent engineers, take a veteran squad with Demo charges loaded up in a chimera. It sort of works. You don't need one of these squads, But It helps)
Focus on the Slowness of the Krieg Advance (You want to be a slow force, yet unstoppable in it's advance. Focus on blasting your opponent to pieces as your men march over them!)
Heavy bolter and Meltaguns (the krieg love Meltaguns and heavy bolters!)
Heavy weapon teams over special weapons teams (The krieg bring the big guns to bear more than the little ones. Remember this)
Other than that well it is up to you really. Which then gives me one final thing to mention. Now I know that what I said above will definitely leave many saying "Yeah you are wrong." and I agree. To me what I said there sounds nothing like a REAL krieg army. So if you want a more "fluffy" army, consider taking:
Okay. Now this will definitely piss people off. I hear the cries now. "No you cant, these characters represent specific armies. You cant just say this represents that" and they are right. You cant grab a random Krieg model and say "Hurr this is Straken". The 40k community would rip you a new one. However what I shall do now is tell you some character that you can use. With varying degrees of pliability. Here goes:
Good Special Characters
1. Creed : Why? Well look at the rules. He is a perfect General figure for a krieg battleline. His special rules can make troops fearless and better in combat USING ORDERS. What better person can personify Krieg spirit than a battlefield commander who can rile the men into acts of heroism? His style of command is well suited to leading from the back. However with Kell, I can say that he is pliable too, I mean many Krieg commanders have Grenadier bodyguards who have shown good skill in battle and he does give other units Creed's LD. However, the idea of a bodyguard with generals is that they are rotated in the krieg an awful lot so consider wisely on this one.
2. Pask : He is so neutral that you can just throw him in any army where Leman Russes are used. Next!
3. Chenkov : Ah but didn't I say that Conscripts are not Krieg themed. Yes I did and I wouldnt take him for that rule. I would take him because he makes troops Stubborn. The stubborn quality is very Krieg-like and he fits well with that aspect. He also fits well into the command structure as a "Major" to the Commander of your armies.
4. Mogul Kamir : Now why? Well. He is a rough rider and a very good rough rider at that. Death Korps just LOVE rough riders and they have the best riders there. Who better to lead your awesome riders to battle than a man on a cyberhorse?
5. Bastonne : I was reluctant to mention Bastonne because well, unless you have him leading a team of engineers he really doesn't if in as anything else. Sure you could give his squad carapace and call them grenadiers and him a "Lieutenant" and sure that would work. But by doing that you also risk the whole hellgun thing becoming a big issue for fluff. I mean it wouldnt make sense in the Krieg army to not give the Lieutenant's squad hellguns but a random sergeant? Sure here's 10! No Quartermasters are very picky individuals. But if you want him take him, his regroup rule and orders ability fits in well with the Krieg.
Okay they are done now, the easier ones to list:
Bad Special Characters
1. ANY Catachans : No. Just no. Bionics? If a Krieg Officer got wounded that many times they wouldn't have bothered saving him. It's not in the Krieg way to waste resources on anyone even a General just to save their live. Marbo won't fit. Krieg special operations are conducted by Grenadiers and Engineers in a precise fashion, not by such an Individual trooper like Marbo is. Individuality isn't in the Krieg way. Harker has a Heavy bolter that he carries like a lasgun, in a Krieg force, the Quartermaster would have taken that Heavy Bolter off him straight after he unhooked it from its mounts. The Catachan, in summary, are way too Individual in nature to fit.
2. Nork Deddog : An Ogryn? Nah. I can't see the Krieg taking an Ogryn into the command squad of any respected Krieg officer. Opinion maybe divided here but I say "Steer clear".
Other than that. The other two characters can fit into the mix if you want to bend the fluff a bit here and there.
I think that's all I need to say. I didn't go into army lists because I think you can work that out for yourself. I didn't mention using an all veteran army because that would be a good way of representing the Grenadier Regiments, which are in the Krieg forces, lots of them in fact. Just always remember, the Krieg is a slow paced war machine, once they start the advance, there is little that can stop them.
Hope my ideas were useful
Last edited by Tarsinian1st; January 15th, 2011 at 09:30. Reason: I remembered more things :D
I like Creed and Chenkov. I find the company banner is a good and fluffy addition for a forward CCS so I'd take Kell too. His selfless sacrifice to save Creed seems appropriate too. Creed also lets you outflank some Death Riders which seems to fit them really well.
The thing you're missing is the heavy weapon squads. Infantry need heavy weapon support as well as artillery when they try to cross the no-man's land.
What I did when I made a Siege Army list is to take 2 CCS. The first advances with a banner to keep the infantry moving in the right direction. The second takes a Master of Ordinance to give me extra artillery fire for cheap and to babysit the HWS. The artillery itself bothers me, having it self-propelled doesn't seem right. I'd probably take a Basilisk, then a Colossus then a Medusa depending on the points. Mortar armed HWS would possibly work too. Letting autocannons rip up transports then saturating the area with templates seems a good plan.
The Stormtroopers are a good alternative for engineers because they can deepstrike. They can count as having tunnelled up from beneath the enemy's position rather than dropping in from the sky. Another option for engineers would be special weapons teams with some flamers and/or demo charges. Full blown vets with Demolitions and Grenadiers would work but you're at 130 before you've even added any special weapons. Bit pricey.
I'm a bit torn about what era the Krieg are closest to in terms of WW1 vs WW2. The battle of Sevastapol in 1942 is probably the closest thing I can think of to a Krieg offensive because of the 40k-esque mega-fortifications and mega-guns in use there. However the grueling attrition is WW1 through and through. Massed armour doesn't suit an attritional style of warfare. I don't like the idea of fielding Russes in a Krieg army. Massed armour is desgined to break a siege line. Presumably they'd have tried that before resorting to attrition and the two strategies are just incompatible. Maybe add one or two but a Krieg army really should be an infantry army.
Copy, Improve, Innovate
I mentioned heavy weapon teams
>Heavy weapon teams over special weapons teams (The krieg bring the big guns to bear more than the little ones. Remember this)
Sorry for the quick reply, I have tried to send a nice long reply but my browser has refreshed the page every time i get halfway into typing. I have no idea why either. I think it s the laptop.
I love the idea of engineers, short range hellguns can make sense as shotguns
Yeah the 2 CCS idea is a thing I have used too in the past, the banner keeping the morale up while the buggers advance
I agree you take a Krieg army to be infantry-centric and yes you mustn't take loads of Russes. However you shouldn't disregard leman russes in a krieg army as they do use them for pushing the advance at key places along the line. They are the driving force as are the engineers/grenadiers a force multiplier. These are key in an army that has lots of troops. Regarding my point you should never forget to take artillery to the front, those big guns can take the place of a russ any day.
I remember when I was at a Designers meet in Warhammer world I asked what the Krieg were based on. I got a reply that it was WW1 Belgians mixed with Germans. Sort of makes sense with the greatcoats and gas masks I guess but not the with the warfare. I guess as with anything GW it is going to be a lot of things. The Catachans are supposed to be US marine corp in the Jungle but from the audiobook they released about Straken, I could have sworn one of them had a Geordie accent!
I myself don't own a proper Krieg army, I lack the funds to pay for an army like that. I posted this so I could see if my ideas for making an army list were good or if they were just crap. It is good that I got some more ideas on how to use the IG codex right now to slowly build up a Krieg army without wasting money.
Thank you Korona for your input, this will go a long way into helping me
Last edited by Tarsinian1st; January 16th, 2011 at 11:44. Reason: Forgot gratitude :D