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Well I'm assuming some/most of you have now had a chance to read the leaked 'dex on the internet for Grey Knights. If not, just google "grey knights leaked codex pdf" its some way down.
For those that cannot find it, there is LOADS of inquisition stuff in there, with 3 named inquisitors (inc Karamazov) and 3 inquisitors for all 3 ordos (including hereticus).
Corteaz also make hencemen troops, which include flaggelants, banisher (looks suspiciously like a priest with psychic powers, crusaders, DCAs and servitors, along with others not from our codex.
All of the assassins are there, seriously boosted and with no restictions on number and no need for an inquisitor (vindicare is particularly INSANE).
So.... what does this mean for us??
Do people think that when we finally get a new codex in middle of next year (fingers crossed) we will have dropped all inquisition content? Will we see a huge amount of ecclisiarch? Are people planning on getting an all inquisition Grey Knights army?
I think we can safely assume that besides tweaks, this will be the backbone of the new codex, Bs3 and Bs4 does seem to big the big playtesting debate... for me it just seems ridiculous that an "elite" army also has access to the cheapest t3 fodder in the whole game...
So our unique models are now..
Sisters (celestian, battles, dominons and retributors)
Canoness and St Celeste
that sounds like one huuuuuuuge codex, so what do people reckon?? hordes of 3pt religious nuts with ccw and laspistols??
Fluff kinda restricts much tech, but killing fluff ain't been a problem before..
I would be VERY sad to see Faith (purity level 1) or something else silly.. although a system similar to dark eldar could be good. ie kill some heretics, get rending, kill some more +1 str to all melta and flame weapons.... POWER FROM FAITH lol
As for sisters, bring the repressor in formally for them and the arbites, make retributors a troops choice, saints an HQ choice, throw in a few 0-1 units like sisters of silence with a gift apc or a lone Oblatia, perhaps a small retinue from the order of the eternal gate with an archeotech weapon/bubble/device, perhaps the old psychic-null En-dogs with or without handlers, DoW-style avenging angels, a bundle of special characters, and some heavy firepower in the form of a Halcyon command rhino directing orbital/artillery strikes. Perhaps some navy support - lightning fighters or thunderbolts - to fill out the long range firepower requirements, an elite cc squad of some description with thunder rhinos, dominica-pattern pods, and perhaps something heavy like a spartan-pattern raider or Perturabo storm tank.
Sisters have traditionally accompanied inquisitors so they might reasonably expect some representation.
There you go - more than enough for a codex.A page back there was a brief discussion of faith tokens, a finite amount of power that was concentrated on the survivors as other squads died... although a system similar to dark eldar could be good. ie kill some heretics, get rending, kill some more +1 str to all melta and flame weapons....
Really, the big problem I have with a new sisters codex is: Don't fix what isn't broken. Codex Creep is really the only thing that's holding the sisters back from being competitve imo.In 4th edition, we were one of the few armies that could actually mech up and still be effective, and when 5th came out, mech was really the only way to go. This was perfectly fine for us because we've been doing it forever, and with rending flamer templates, we hardly cared about the new cover rules, and melta gun became the end all vehicle killers (besides stupid S6 H4 rending assault cannons), which again fit right into our lap. However, the problem quickly became other codexes getting updates and ultimately cheaper and better units, though we could still very much fight back. However, creep builds slowly and despite sisters only getting better in 5th, everyone else got better with updates, which means an update. Admittedly, much of the Codex needs an update, but the core of the Codex still works.
All of the Inquisition stuff seems to be in the Grey Knights codex, including Ordo Hereticus and Arco Flagellents.
This means the codex can focus on the sisters of battle and the Ecclesiarchy, which means more sisters units, and more things like Priests, Zelots, Confessors, and Penetinet Engines (which may see way of the Dreadknight).
I have heard rumors of new plastic Sisters that apparently look stunning. I believe the words were "graceful, but in a brutal way" though this was a prototype and they are a very long way off (at least a year).
If the same person who did the GK codex wrotes the SoB codex, then we may very well see Faith become "Purity Level 1" and nothing more then Psychic Powers.
Sisters may become BS3, which would make them little more then gaurdsmen in Power Armor. I find this hard to believe as even gaurdsmen have BS4 units and I higly doubt that anyone in the guard goes through more intensive training than a sister, but that could lead to:
A possible shift in fluff for the sisters that pulls them more away from the Inquisition. While I like the idea, this could lead to any number of things to "reason" why they would become something along the lines of BS3 or "faith" becomming "Psychic power"
I'd put more down, but I'm tired, so I'm just going to move on to what I'd expect/want in/from the codex.
Faith has already been discussed, as AT has said and there were several really good ideas there. What I, and I'm sure everyone else, doesn't want to see is faith devolving into little more than psychic powers. It is inevitable that faith will be changed. I doubt there is another rule in 40k that is questioned as often as Faith, which means it will be dumbed down and streamlined significantly. I only hope it remains a unique and key part of playing Sisters of Battle lest they become Imperial Gaurdswomen. I have a feeling that there will be basic "Acts of Faith" available to each unit that does something like grant rending or perhaps even ignore LoS (don't laugh, GKs have a psy power that does it).
From the aspect of the actual Sisters of Battle, I'd imagine these would happen:
Keep the basic statline for sisters and make them 5 for 55 points, including Veteran as this is the new standard for all codexes. Options including 2 melta/flamers per five and one heavy-flamer/bolter/melta per 10 with new possible weapons including stake crossbows and possibly perhaps something that launches a small blast template like a granade launcher that shoots like holy prometheum (insert monty python joke here =P). Transports include Rhinos/Immolators/Repressors (Rhinos becomming akin to their current incarnation and Immos becomming Fast).
For Seraphim, give them the option of going full CC with possibly Storm Shields and Power Swords (Pswords would depend on how faith goes). I feel they should also come standard with an invul save (5+), as this would give them more survivability if you went with classic gun slinger. A possible Divine Intervention ability might also be a good idea, but I can't really think of a good mechanic atm.
Make Exorcists S8 AP1 Heavy 4 and give them a Salvo that fires 4 S6 AP4 small blast templates via ordinance.
I'd really want to share the rest of my thoughts, but I'm damn near falling asleep on my keyboard, so yea.
Last edited by ikbuh; February 26th, 2011 at 12:05.
40k: Silver Angels of Our Martyred Lady 7/2/3 - Daemons of the Great Squiggle! 3/1/0
Fantasy: Windhost of Athel'Loren 2/0/0 - Daemons of Another Great Squiggle! 0/0/0
Warmahordes: Legion of Everblight (Absylonia)
I like the idea of blast templates from the exo but fear too many people would cry cheese with the high number of shots that it would get. so many people i play hate the exo for the amount of shots it can dump down range. Granted I would like the security of having the fixed number of shots.
If they dwarf sisters down to BS3 and faith to psychic powers im gonna hurt someone. the are equivalent to un-genetically modified astartes which means they can shoot just as well as the boys. the only difference is the boys have been enhanced to withstand more punishment (hence T4) and can hit harder (S4).
Suffer not the heretic. That's right, I'm looking at you Astartes Librarians.
I just want a points fix and a Repressor. That is all.
Plastic models may be nice, but I got all the metal I need.
5th Sisters of Battle: 10-5-12 (W-L-T)
-A flying eternal warrior with impressive capabilities who requires a continual commitment of faith.
-Fearless and poison/psychic protection similar to gargantuan creatures, conferred to any squad joined.
-Powerful close combat seraphim, summoned by squads at the cost of faith and only remaining as long as the combat lasts before being returned to reserves.
-Non-FOC, purchased with a Saint and lost if the Saint is killed.
Canoness & retinue
-Cheap but flexible command option who can be built up into a sturdy celestian close combat unit.
-Retinue bring tactical options similar to the IG's advisers - move an enemy unit, choice of deployment zone, etc.
-A character upgrade for any Sororitas unit
-Provides a boost to the squad in the form of a USR or Legate-only equipment options
Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor & retinue
-A potent psychic force multiplier, able to hinder the enemy and bend friendly units to his own grand strategy.
-Retinue can provide raw firepower or options to enhance nearby squads.
-Leading from the front, ensuring the lesser ecclesiarchy forces drive home their charge.
-Can provide a variety of special abilities such as zeal and the option for a squad to absorb some incoming fire, providing improved cover saves to those behind.
-Elite sisters who can be equipped for either a punishing charge or withering firepower.
-Various unique equipment options including blessed ammo, suspensors, combi-weapons, sarissas, and praesidium protectivas.
Order of the eternal gate
-A small unit of sisters protecting a potent device from the imperium's dark age of technology.
-Several sisters and a two-girl model with a single device such as a conversion beamer, rad cleanser, jamming beacon, etc.
Sisters of Silence
-A mobile weaken resolve aura. Lightly armoured in carapace but deadly in combat.
-Can optionally lead a pack of vicious pariah en-dogs or use the archaic shielded 'Emperor's Gift' skimmer APC.
-Small elite units that infiltrate onto the board - high damage, low durability, and hard to target.
-Pick from close combat reapers, snipers, and saboteurs.
-10-20 sisters with a special weapon for every 5 and a heavy weapon for every 10.
-Options for a variety of banners and icons, and a penitent Sister Oblatia to aid the squad if pushed back in combat.
-5-10 sisters with up to four heavy weapons (Retributors).
-Structured much like the IG platoon with an optional judge, arbite units, and special forces.
-Options include outriders, snipers, heavy fire support, and suppression shield armed strike units.
-A rampaging mob, barely controlled without a priest around, intermixed with eviscerator-wielding fanatics.
-A few arco-flagellants hidden amongst the crowd can add a one-time only goblin-fanatic style punch.
-5-10 elite jump sisters, with twin pistols or a single pistol and a witch lance.
-5-10 sisters in a transport, scouting out ahead of the force with advanced scanning equipment.
-Able to clear out infiltrators and deep strikers with special weapons, grenades, and melta-cutting tools.
-Suicidal sisters, a source of faith in death and lethal in close combat.
-A powerful, low flying fightercraft with a heavy armament.
-A well armoured tank with an unpredictable but powerful salvo missile launcher.
-Capable of indirect (top down) fire, though this provides an unmodifiable 4+ cover save to represent the inaccuracy of the shots.
-Irreparably damaged exorcist launchers are replaced with this powerful witch-lance firing crossbow.
-Hits targets in a line, destroying infantry and heavy vehicles alike.
-Support fire from other imperial forces, keyed to a single location once it becomes available.
-A Halcyon command rhino can be taken to direct the strikes, bringing them in sooner and changing targets each turn.
-Relentless across the table, any immobilised results are instead resolved as weapon destroyed.
-Up-armoured chimeras with salvo missile launchers or frag cannons and a very limited transport capacity.
-Old style machine spirit - option to fire at BS2 and keep moving straight ahead.
Helepolis-pattern siege engine
-A variant STC design of landraider, not covered by the Emperor's edicts during the Heresy and claimed by the ecclesiarchy.
-Heavily armoured, if somewhat lumbering, providing a stable firing platform for it's fire points.
hmmm...zealots would be BS2...I'd say BS2 for arbites, since fluff-wise, they're nowhere near as well-trained as IG...but they do have to be better than zealots, so I guess BS3 for them...the BS of the zealots is an afterthought, though...they get, what, autopistol and CCW? So maybe BS2 for arbites (but WS4, I see them being able to subdue unruly, if drunken, guardsmen) and BS1 for zealots? I assume arbites get a 6+ armor save and shotguns? I'd like to see them have a 6+ save against shooting and a 5+ save in melee, though... I guess stubbers for special weapons (one per three models?) in the arbites, and maybe a "heavy" team of 6 with three heavy stubbers if you take enough arbites? Stats on a shock maul? Maybe they function just like a CCW, except that, like thunderhammers, a successful wound (make it a successful hit in this case, actually) results in -1A (down to a minimum of one), making them somewhat useful as speedbumps against assault troops without actually dishing out enough pain to cost a lot of points...They're trained to handle riots, so they'd probably need high LD, perhaps either unmodifiable or rerollable? Basically, I'd see them as holding up enemy melee units for longer than their points cost and model count would suggest that they might, but ultimately not being the sort of melee badass that carves up ravenors with ease (cause that's just plain unfluffy!)
Last edited by Marnepup; March 3rd, 2011 at 21:56.
IG since 1999 __ DA since 2002 __ Tau since 2005 __ SoB since 2007
Brets 1997-1999 __ TK since 2009 __ Empire since 2010
In retrospect the heavy weapon squads make little sense, though there are sentry guns in one of the IA books that would be perfect for them. One TL heavy stubber team per squad is still 1 heavy weapon per 4 models.
As for suppression shields and shock mauls ... perhaps a save reroll (poor man's FnP), defensive grenades, and a poison (4+) weapon. Would keep them cheap if nothing else.
Just kicking ideas around, not much activity for the sisters of late.