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  1. #1
    Senior Member Papa_Wheely's Avatar
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    Playing Against Grey Knights

    Well, I just got my first game in (1500 points) against the Grey Knights with my Dread heavy Salamanders list, and I thought I might share some of my insights.

    The Grey Knights are very elite and very versatile. They can gear themselves up to be good at most things, but they will generally win in the Assault phase. Because they have power weapons on just about everyone they put the hurt on smaller CC armies (Blood Angels, Space Wolves), but with Purifier squads and such they can kill horde armies. What they will have a hard time with, however, is massed armor.

    I ran 6 Dreadnoughts today and he failed to kill any of them (although granted, he was mainly gunning for my Tacticals because it was a 4 objective game). Land Raiders and Vindicators will be able to run pretty much buck wild over much of their army because of somewhat limited access to high-strength long range firepower. They do have some pretty sneaky tricks for anti-tank, especially if your rear armor is low, but it is what they are weakest at.

    So the Grey Knights are great in CC against anyone, and very good at shooting up infantry and light armor, but they are only OK against heavy armor. Their main let down, however, is that they have a tendency to specialize very heavily, often to the point of opening themselves up to opposite weaknesses. I feel that GK will be a very "rock-paper-scissors" army, but one that can gear itself to deal with most opponents.

    So what does everyone else think? Does my experience jive with yours? Or am I talking out of my backside?


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  3. #2
    kinkeh secks pl0x?! Brother Tiberius's Avatar
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    So basically they are exactly the same as they were before?
    I can't say I'm surprised, after all we are talking about the Games Workshop power curve here.

    At the very least you would expect an army that has power weapons on just about everything to be very scary in combat. And I'm sure your correct in your thoughts that both Space Wolf and Blood Angel players are going to be considerably annoyed that theres now an army that is potentially smaller than theres that will probably do their job better (if were talking in terms of power curve then nobody can really deny this can they?)

    So it seems that the new army is "broken" is this really a surprise? no of course not. But does it bother me? no. It just makes beating them with a vanilla marine list all that much sweeter.

    It may be all well and good being able to customise a list heavily to do either one thing or another. Effctively making this list unable to be balanced. Something which could potentially hurt it in Tournament play. However, taking the "missions" into account it seems that Grey Knights won't ever have an issue.

    Kill Points: Easy with that many power weapons
    Base objectives: This is the only I see grey knights having a problem with.
    Various objectives: focusing on troops will allow the grey knights to easily win these games.

    So, in terms of your arguments I can see where your coming from but the disadvantages you speak of are easily overcome in the grader scheme of things.
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    kinkeh secks pl0x?! Brother Tiberius's Avatar
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    So basically they are exactly the same as they were before?
    I can't say I'm surprised, after all we are talking about the Games Workshop power curve here.

    At the very least you would expect an army that has power weapons on just about everything to be very scary in combat. And I'm sure your correct in your thoughts that both Space Wolf and Blood Angel players are going to be considerably annoyed that theres now an army that is potentially smaller than theres that will probably do their job better (if were talking in terms of power curve then nobody can really deny this can they?)

    So it seems that the new army is "broken" is this really a surprise? no of course not. But does it bother me? no. It just makes beating them with a vanilla marine list all that much sweeter.

    It may be all well and good being able to customise a list heavily to do either one thing or another. Effctively making this list unable to be balanced. Something which could potentially hurt it in Tournament play. However, taking the "missions" into account it seems that Grey Knights won't ever have an issue.

    Kill Points: Easy with that many power weapons
    Base objectives: This is the only I see grey knights having a problem with.
    Various objectives: focusing on troops will allow the grey knights to easily win these games.

    So, in terms of your arguments I can see where your coming from but the disadvantages you speak of are easily overcome in the grader scheme of things.
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    Grey Knights can take Dreadnoughts and Land Raiders (not sure about vindicators) - how are they gimped at long range/anti-tank?

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    Senior Member Papa_Wheely's Avatar
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    @Brother Tiberius :
    I would hesitate to call them broken. In my game it was a draw, but only just. I had butchered almost all of his army, I still had most of my dreads, my HQ, and a few stragglers from my tactical squads. Yes, in Kill Points missions they will be very effective, but they will be hampered in other scenarios because of their low body count: they will have a tougher time scoring objectives because they have fewer scoring bodies. So they are strong, but not broken. They are very much a finesse army because they simply cannot afford to take casualties from stupid mistakes, whereas other armies can be a little more forgiving in that respect.

    @ TheShad0w:
    They have a tough time dealing with AV 14, or massed 12 and 13, at range because they have, to the best of my knowledge, little or no access to melta or lance weaponry, and massed Las Cannon fire is prohibitively expensive. It's an already expensive gun on an even more expensive body.

    However, I got the chance to read through the codex more today, and found that they posses was is possibly the best ranged AT weapon in the game in the form of the Vindicare Assassin. I don't know how often they will be fielded because they have such strong competition for the Elites slots (Purgation squads, Paladins, etc) but the Vindicare has the Turbo Penetrator round, which rolls 4D6 for armor penetration. I feel that these will become a staple for those who are not sticking to a pure GK theme.

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    Don't forget they also have orbital bombardment strikes, a standard one, lance for tanks and an anti-pysker one.

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    Senior Member Mad Cat's Avatar
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    Against grey knights:

    HQ: a Librarian is invaluable. They get plenty of psy powers, even the basic squads so the psy hood will be very useful against Ld 8 or 9 powers.

    Elites: Dreads and particularly ironclads will do ok as the grey knights tend to be short of melta (unless corteaz turns up with melta henchmen in chimeras). Assault termies with thunderhammers would be my choice for combat as they GKs can strike at I6 with PW halberds and you really need the 3+ invulnerable to survive all the force weapons. Sternguard in pods can mow down PAGKs with AP3 ammo but they cost too much in my view.

    Troops: Tac squads armed with plasma and plasma cannon could work. Meltaguns as always are a verrsatile weapon if the enmy takes landraiders.

    Fast: MM attack bikes are decent. Land speeders will be glanced to death easily by storm bolters. If he takes psycannon too and psybolt ammo it gets even worse. Assault marines and vanguards cannot overcome the all force weapon GK squads so best not even try.

    Hreavy: AC/2LC preds and vindicators as per usual. Grey knights have trouble dealing with lots of land raiders but you could easily find yourself being outnumbered by grey knights if you take several.
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  9. #8
    jy2
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    They can deal with armor. They have arguably the best anti-tank dreads currently - rifleman dreads with psybolt ammo. That's 4 S8 twin-linked autocannon shots (BS5 for the vendreads!) each turn, with the ability to ignore shaken/stunned results. This is my competitive build (found here in my batrep (The New Grey Knights vs Witch Hunters 2K - Competitive! (with Pics))) and I was able to disable almost all 9 of my opponents vehicles by turns 3/4.

    And don't even think about taking a drop pod army against the new Grey Knights. It is a risky proposition at best. Their fast attack and troop grey knights have this psychic power called Warp Quake that makes deepstriking units automatically mishap should they land anything within 12" of those units.

    Another popular build that you will see is psycannon-spam. Now, the new psycannons are S7 with rending. Given enough of them (typical in a spam-list), they will even damage AV 13/14 vehicles.

    Marines can still fight against the new Grey Knights. They just need to adjust to them.
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  10. #9
    Son of LO Polaria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jy2 View Post
    And don't even think about taking a drop pod army against the new Grey Knights. It is a risky proposition at best. Their fast attack and troop grey knights have this psychic power called Warp Quake that makes deepstriking units automatically mishap should they land anything within 12" of those units.
    I thought Warp Quake only disabled teleport homers, locator beacons and other stuff that remove scatter from Deep Strike?
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    jy2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polaria View Post
    I thought Warp Quake only disabled teleport homers, locator beacons and other stuff that remove scatter from Deep Strike?
    It does that too, but mainly, any deepstriking unit that lands within 12" of the unit with Warp Quake auto-mishaps.

    It's just nasty against deepstrikers.
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