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Hi everyone im Starfire and a Tau player. The new codex has stirred quite a few people across the forums, although it has to be said shooting armies like Tau and IG arent that bovered. The reason as to why im posting here is to try and understand a new tactic you guys are devolping, namely the "teleport scout shunt".
Now i have the codex, and ive seen army lists and tactics put up. Not everyone is trying this move but it goes like this. Get grand master, give scout to D3 interceptor squads, scout 30".
Ive read the rules VERY carefully, and have found two reasons as to why this CANT be done.
NO1. Teleport shunt is a once PER game special rule. Scout moves happen BEFORE the game begins, so thats a no no.
Although I know a lot of people that argue the second models go on to a table, the game begins, so not to clear on that one.
NO2. (the more definate reason) The scout rule allows units to make a NORMAL move. a once per game 30" teleport special rule is NOT NORMAL under any pretex's, so cannot be combined with scout. Again a no no.
The 12" jump move interceptors have is normal as they can do this every turn of the game, and I think this makes lot more sense.
Im sorry if this sounds like ive come on to your forums to critisize, as this is not the case, and I apolagise if it appears so. I dont want a flame war, probably cos my Tau might come of worse lol. I know not every grey knight player is gonna try this, but the fact remains there are a few people out there that are and I dont think its legal. Am I right or wrong, im inclined to think im right based on reason 2, but who knows eh?
Looking forward to any replies (whilst hiding behind a big force field mu ha ha ha, your psi bolt rotton eggs can never reach me now!)
Last edited by starfire; April 28th, 2011 at 15:14. Reason: spelling and grammer
I don't have my GK codex here so i can't judge properly but if what you say is true that shunt is a one time thing. Then yeah you're totally right with No.2 and that would make a lot more sense. But we will see maybe it will be cleared with a FAQ .
The way my store has interpreted it is that you are allowed to shunt during the scout phase. Given that the rulebook FAQ states that you can turbo boost (not a normal move, but a universal special rule) we concluded that it is not far stretch to allow the shunt during the scouting phase.
It really is a subjective area here, and I do agree that it needs a FAQ.
What you consider to be the beginning of the game (when turn 1 starts), many people would beg to differ. I say the game starts as soon as you put models down on the board, because once you do that, you have to follow ALL of the rules of the game, including deployment zones, declaring reserves, seeing what models you can put down, doing deployment moves such as scout and infiltrate, etc.
Even the "normal move" is highly subjective. 6" is the normal move for infantry. 12" the normal move for jump infantry. Moving flat-out 24" is "normal" for fast skimmers. Now thanks to the FAQ, turboosting is "normal" for bikers. I'm using precedent to say that shunting is "normal" for units with personal teleporters.
So it isn't as clear-cut as you think. I'd discuss it with you in the game, but if you disagree, then I'm afraid that we'll just going to have to dice-off to see who is correct or just not play each other.
Record: Win - Loss - Draw: Hive Fleet Pandora (New) 32-6-6 Space Wolf 7th Co. 52-11-6
Blood Angels 12-4-2 Daemonhunters 20-8-3
Imperial Guards 12-5-2 Daemons 8-3-2
I dont understand your logic, you can turbo boost or move flat out every turn of the game, you cant teleport shunt more than once, and the very fact that its a special rule should indicate its not a normal move, but a special one.
Im sorry if i seemed rude then, there was no intention of it coming across like that. i think you need to find something better to compare to, as like i said comparing something that can be done every turn of the game to something that can only be done once is abit moot, dont you think?
again apolgies if this seemed rude its just hard to find a way with words sometimes lol
Last edited by starfire; April 28th, 2011 at 18:03.
I vote that you can. Again, it's just interpretation but the scout rule states, "This is done exactly as in their movement phrase.." I find that the option to teleport 30" is a normal move/choice (just like a bike can choose to turbo boost or not) in a normal movement phase. Just because you can't move 30" every turn, doesn't mean it is abnormal. I guess my interpretation would be, "if it's legal in the movement phase - then you can do it." In the end, we will know for sure
The game it's self really does begin in the deployment phase. You are trying to place your models in the best way to win after all. Now if I remember right (I don't play space marines) that their codex doesn't say their bikes can turbo boost in the scout phase ether, that part is in the faq. While the codex don't say it they can use shunt in the scout phase it also doesn't say it can't. Until the much needed faq comes out and as much as I hate to say it, interceptors can shunt in the scout phase.
Last edited by DJElam; April 28th, 2011 at 21:26.
On your point 2 (as you've already mentioned the lack of clarity on point 1). One could argue that the 30" move is normal for Interceptor squads as they can perform it every game. I suppose it can be likened to some of the one-shot deals that some vehicles have (such as death strike missile). Just because they have only one shot, doesn't mean the shot is not normal, its' just limited in quantity.
Having said that, if I used the GM to give scout to a unit, it wouldn't be an interceptor squad anyway, but that well be because of my limited generalship
so far no-one has offered a valid reason as to why you should be able to do it, but just merely stated that there opinion makes it so (aside from tuatara, who actually tried to use rules to base his point, well met there mate). ive put up 2-3 good legitimate reasons as to why you cant.
NO1. its a special rule, that grants the bearer 1 30" teleport, thats unique to 1 peice of wargear in 1 codex in the entire game. therfore making it unique and abnormal, not normal.
NO2. a normal move is something you can do every turn of the game. you can not teleport shunt every turn, thereby making it an abnormal move.
number 3 is a more delicate reason, as it depends on your opinion on when the game starts or when your setting up. heres my view, when do you start playing monoply, the second you put it on the table or after the first player gets his first turn? i myself do not consider setting up a game to be a part of playing said game, others will think differently and thats fine, if the whole world agreed with each other it wouldnt be the world we know yadda yadda :-)
in context though for me and my army wether you do it or not doesnt matter, my castle technique leaves no space for deepstrikers, and my front wall is full of units meant to die, all your doing is bringing the inevitable rapid fire to death all the quicker for me mu ha ha ha (delpoys imaginery force field) ha your stinky psi bolt egss cant get me now ha ha ha arggh!!! (falls off chair)
Last edited by starfire; April 28th, 2011 at 19:39. Reason: comedy to make this debate entertaining aswell as informative
A FAQ response will be required, but I don't see any reason to deny the teleport shunt for a Scout move based on the existing RAW. As already noted, precedent for other units with special -- i.e., non-normal -- movement abilities are allowed to use them for a Scout move.
ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
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