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Having played a lot of games recently, I am finding the most effective varient against non meq armies is my punisher with three heavy bolters. Math hammer says it is poor, but it generally inflicts seven or eight wounds from its weapons every turn. No other varient can guarantee that, what with scattering or generally less rate of fire.
I suffer a lot from bad luck, having had my regular leman russes shoot each other with nine inch scatters in the past!
Does anyone else have similar experiences? I know on paper the punisher is an overpriced piece of tat, but it can hose units down through weight of fire. Anything skulking in cover is still forced to make a lot of saves. So much so that I am considering bolting on a heavy stubber to increase its firepower to thirty-two dice of shooting love.
Often I find the best use of it is when the enemy are hiding on three or more floors of buildings. Due to the rules where blast templates only hit one floor, I can often only hit one or two soldiers with the shells. With the punisher, it doesn't matter what kind of arcane feng shui your enemy is employing to minimalise their hits vs template weapons, and beleive me, against guard in my gaming group everyone spreads out their units more.
Any thoughts? It could be that in my particular gaming environment where we have a lot of buildings, it makes it better than on average.
Interesting topic, did you use Pask with your Punisher or stock standard?
Punishers are definitely different, but i find for an all-comers list they are far to expensive for what they do. If you know you are going to vs a non-MEQ, possibly, but with over half of the armies available MEQ's its hard to justify its point cost.
How do you find the HB sponsons? With a 24" range i find sponsons to generally be a waste as i have to constantly move to find suitable targets. In fact, i'd even say a hull HF would be better than a hull HB. To sum up my opinion, the Punisher is just a waste when the other LR variants are cheaper and actually better. Its cool, but not the most competitive.
Hi xDETHx Turtle,
I agree with your point they are too expensive for an all comers list. I would never use it vs marines, and so by default if I didn't know who I was playing, eg in a tourney or competition, it would not be on my lists. For the points, I would rather take a demolisher in an all comers list, but that doesn't rule out the specific niche the punisher can do well in. Specifically vs tau/guard, where they don't tend to have too many close assault units to scare tanks. I am fairly certain that for roughly the same points as a 3 heavy bolter varient punisher, I could also field a demolisher with plasma sponsons!
I typically play 1850 points, and usually take a collossus to blast marines to bits, so I can have a bit more fun with the russ varients than I would otherwise be able to.
Heavy bolter sponsons work fine on the Punisher, since the gatling cannon has only a 24 inch range. What I find helps a lot is in objective games, the enemy won't want to shift off it. It means I can roll up to 24 inches away and unleash hell.
I don't use Pask. In my gaming group special characters are more or less banned. They only ever appear if its agreed before hand that certain characters will be used. A bit odd, but we figure if said legendary figure was turning up, the chances are the enemy would know about it!
The point of this thread was just to ask if other people had used them, or had ruled them out simply on the basis of statistics really.
Thats fair enough, what i meant with the HB sponsons is that if the Punisher moves, it cannot fire its sponsons. Couple that with a 24" range on the Gatling Cannon and i find the sponsons are rarely able to fire. I have to add that i'm guilty of disregarding it because of statistics, i do use mathhammer extensively.
Good point too, i can see this variant being useful against IG, Tau and other GEQ's. Eldar Guardians come to mind.
Last edited by xDETHx Turtle; June 3rd, 2011 at 10:08. Reason: Added stuff
It is also surprisingly good against dark eldar, with their paper-like vehicles meaning it can even turn a hand to gunning them down!
I only built it because I got given a 3rd demolisher as a present, and I had already built a demolisher and an executioner, so figured I may as well have one of each option.
I normally deploy the punisher to either protect a flank, or to sit covering an objective where it doesn't really need to move. Armour 11 on the rear is an obvious advantage for pillbox type deployment.
Don't take such a concentrated points block against Dark Eldar. Their lance and haywire weapons will stun-lock it so badly. AV14 means nothing to them. Yeah you might kill a 55pt raider if the DE player sets up poorly but it's just not worth it. There are much better AT options.
The Punisher is fun but I'd look on Ebay for some bitz to give it a regular Leman Russ turret. In the guard you really have to work hard to justify units that cost much more than 150 points, there's normally something that can do the same job for cheaper. Same for the Executioner really.
I'd be tempted to use the Punisher as a "counts as" Hydra (think Phalanx CIWS) Lots of nice AT dakka for a fraction of the cost.
Last edited by Korona; June 3rd, 2011 at 11:29.
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Models are not an issue for me Korona, I have 6 leman russ tanks, with 7 turrets! I can field 2 basic russ, 1 demolisher, 1 erradicator, 1 punisher and one executioner. I have a vanquisher turret too spare from the imperial bombard model I bought from forgeworld to use as a collossus.
Chassis I have a choice of the following hulls, 2 with just a heavy bolter, no sponson, 1 with 3 heavy bolters, 2 with heavy bolters and lascannon and one with plasma cannons and lascannon.
I just like choice! That and lots and lots of tanks
It outperforms your Eradicator against non-MEQs? I would expect the denial of cover saves to be more effective than straight dakka, particularly since non-MEQs tend to be hordes. As for myself, I face so many elite, mechanized, alpha strike lists in my area that the Punisher's inability to harm vehicles or cause instant death makes it a no-go.I am finding the most effective varient against non meq armies is my punisher with three heavy bolters.
"My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard
I don´t have a Punisher, but I´d like to test the Punisher on our Cities of Death table where we have many buildings with at least 3 floors.