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pros and cons?? i would like to know your views cos i like sang guard models (not the nipple parts of course) and their fluff...but game-wise??
pros: psycho effect causes fear in opponent (i think)...or inexperienced opponents...
all have master-crafted power weapons
move up to 18" with (in my list, how i plan to use em, with a priest) furious charge and dont feel pain
pedro kantor boltguns
cons: 200 points...i can get termies and they get invul saves and they fit in a land raider
for the elite of elite of the chapter...i think ws4 is a bit weak and not elite...shld be ws5 imo
cant upgrade to include more
no invul saves...as mentioned
models are friggin hard to assemble (WINGS)...might be just me
would like to know if u share my views on this awesome unit fluff-wise, but okay to crap unit game-wise
They have a lot of potential. Give them the chapter banner and one powerfist, death masks if points allow, take Sanguinor as HQ and run him with them (I know he's not an IC, but nothing prevents you from just keeping him nearby) and then an Honour Guard with two meltaguns (powerfist optional) either in a Rhino or with jump packs (depending on how much other mech you've got). This setup gives the Sanguinary Guard a whopping 5 attacks at I5 and S5 on the charge! Granted, it does cost a total of 700 points -725 if the Honour Guard get a powerfist, 750 with death masks- but it does terrible, terrible damage in assault.
I've noticed the elite, IC Sanguinary Priest is just too squishy to run in a small unit like the Sanguinary Guard because you cant keep him far enough back to prevent him from running into melee and then dying stupidly. The non-IC priest in the Honour Guard is far more survivable.
In summary, I do like the Sanguinary Guard. The unit has a lot of potential if they are given the proper buffs and ran smartly (ie. not out in the open eating AP2 shots). The only downer is that their weapons are kind of meh compared to the special power weapons of other SM armies.
Ridell illustrates some very good points about the Guard.
In addition to the Sanguinor, I sometimes run a unit of Guard with Dante. He gives them the Hit & Run special rule, which can be very advantageous with a squad like the Guard. Letting them possibly jump out of combat after the opposing player's assault turn, just to fire and assault again on your turn can make them very annoying to the enemy.
The point about them not having invulnerable saves is a crucial one to consider when using them. Know what your enemy can shoot them with. Don't run them at an IG Chimera loaded with melta gun-carrying troops, for example. I've found that running them in a stormraven (assault vehicle) can be very frustrating for the enemy. They won't get shot at on the approach, and can jump out and assault with Dante or Astorath, or a Priest. Very fun, when it works out. When it doesn't, adapt and overcome. Fortunately, the Guard excel when faced with that prospect.
Another thought on the death masks, I've found them to be useful when facing other Space marines, or IG, or Eldar, but when facing armies with tons of fearless units(e.g. Genestealers, Ork mobs, etc.), their usefulness diminishes. Something to consider.
A very fun unit, IMO, and one that I enjoy using. Others will tell you that they're not worth the points, but seeing them take down a Mawloc or pop a Land Raider and then slice and dice the units within can really make them worthwile. No unit is"the ultimate unit" but I like to think the Sanguinary Guard are a very effective unit when used properly. And there is definitely an intangible psychological factor when taking them. I've seen an opponent completely ignore a frag cannon-armed Furioso Dreadnought(to their demise) because my Guard was breathing down the neck of their HQ. Sure, my Guard died gloriously, but they took most of the HQ and his squad with them, and the Furioso took the rest.
Don't expect them to win the war for you, but do expect them to perform on par with how they are directed in the battle. Such is the same with most units. Good luck.
Sang. Guard are pretty much useless, being little more than five ordinary Marines with power weapons. If I send them after Monstrous Creatures or elite units then they'll die quickly from their modest initiative, no inv. save and low model count. If I send them after hordes then they'll be ineffective thanks to their meager handful of ordinary-MEQ attacks. If I send them after vehicles then they need expensive, tiny-ranged melta upgrades that make them even more vulnerable to special weapons and deepstrike mishaps.
I'd rather take Honor Guard, who have lots of options and a non-IC Priest, or Vanguard, who have more attacks and rarely get caught in the open when they deepstrike, or a minimal Assault Squad, which is half the cost, scoring and about equal in effectiveness once you figure in some attrition.
"My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard
I don't think that's necessarily a fair assessment. I respect your opinion, Intrepid, but I disagree that they're useless. Five regular Space Marines are far from useless, and if they are armed with master-crafted power weapons, have two attacks, jump packs, a 2+ armor save, and have two-shot AP 4 assault bolters, they are in fact better than a normal Space Marine. I don't think you're giving them a fair shake, here. When they assault, they have three attacks each, if they have the chapter banner, that's four. If, as Ridell pointed out, the Sanguinor also happens to be nearby, they now have five attacks. 25 attacks with master-crafted power weapons is a lot for any unit to face. True, that's a best-case scenario, but it is trying to look at some of the positives of a unit, rather than just the negatives. As far as taking "expensive" upgrades, no other Blood Angels unit can take an infernus pistol or a power fist for so few points. I may be incorrect, but I don't think there are many units accross the forces of the Imperium of Man that can take an infernus pistol or a power fist that cheaply. I am simply pointing out some benefits that your assessment dismissed so readily. Our friend, mEpoSeR, was asking our opinion, and I see that your opinion of the Guards' abilities is quite low. Again, I can understand that, but I think there are pros that get over-looked by just dismissing them off-hand as "useless".Sang. Guard are pretty much useless
I mentioned in my earlier thread that some would say that they aren't worth the points. As I stated before, any unit can gain that stigma, that they "never cover their points", but I've found that in a game like 40k, which is based on probabilities, that if you use a unit once or twice, and decide that because they did not succeed, they must be "useless", then my advice would be to try using them more, and perhaps differently. The law of averages would indicate that a broader range of data is necessary to make an effective judgement. I'm not saying this is the case here, I've seen other players do it before, and have caught myself thinking it once or twice.
I point this out simply to make sure less experienced players, like myself, aren't scared away from units based on a stigma that surrounds them. The more experienced players and posters on this forum, who undoubtedly have a long history playing 40k, know how it can be starting off, and I'm sure want to help us avoid the traps of believing one unit can win the game for us. It's easy to see how a new player could fall into that trap with a unit like the Sanguinary Guard. I would hope we could steer clear of the other extreme of advising new players to avoid using certain units at all cost, especially when they clearly like the unit a lot. Pointing out the cons of a unit is all well and good, a lack of invulnerable saves in this case is a big one, but try and throw a pro or two in there just to give a balanced view-point. My aim with this response was simply to point out that the Sanguinary Guard are not useless. I don't believe any unit in 40K is useless. But that is just my opinion.
Last edited by Brother Gideon; August 8th, 2011 at 20:08. Reason: Sorry, it was Ridell that advised using the Sanguinor. Just trying to give you your due, Ridell. ;-)