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I know the recent craze has been rifleman dreadnoughts in almost every army that can take them but what is everyone's thoughts on a dread with just one TL-Autocannon? I like the ability to actually do something in CC personally and flexibility is a really big factor in my choice of units. While dual AC is nice in CC it doesn't feel like it's really doing anything but stalling. Thoughts?
"LET'S COMMENCE PREPARATIONS FOR RUMBLING!" Mono-Tzeentch 1:1:1
A normal dreadnought really doesn't have the volume of base attacks in CC to be good against anything but vehicles - MCs rip them to shreads with their AP ability, and most heavy infantry packs powerfists or thunderhammers or other similar abilities that will rip open a dreadnoughts armour. Even against lighter infantry, you often can't kill enough of them to make any kind of appreciable difference.
Emphasis on Shooting is a popular means to bypass this. If you're looking for something a little more versitile then the rifleman though, consider a Rainman. (Assault Cannon, TL Autocannon) Those extra couple of shots and rending make it a fair bit more useful against a wider range of targets.
I say bring the DCCW. Combat-capable Dreadnoughts have become so rare lately that few players really expect to encounter them. At best, most players think that a hidden powerfist is all they really need...but it isn't. If your Dread kills two Marines and survives the powerfist (good chance of that) then you're likely to make them run away. Then you consider how Razorback spam require tiny squad sizes, or how Grey Knights and Blood Angels can be SO dependent on independent characters, or how Eldar and non-MC Tyranids don't have good anti-Dread equipment, and you see that it's quite possible for an ordinary Dreadnought to do serious damage with its DCCW.
Also, this gives the Dread something to do while it's shaken.
"My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard
I've been running a basic 105 points dread or with a Plasma-Cannon an extra 10 points in my space wolves army and to be honest it rarely makes it into close combat, meaning he needs to repay its points in shooting, armed with a assault cannon or plasma cannon it has being lending fire support, as well as attracting AT firepower, but not enough to repay its points - I'm thinking of trying a rifleman dread but I'm not sure how effective that combo will actually be either, making me think about dropping it altogether.
In answer to your question, in most armies that can take one the relatively slow speed of a dread means he rarely makes it into combat and therefore the flexibility of a close combat weapon isn't particularly needed. Besides I agree with watchwood, close up, meltaguns (in particular), powerfists and MC's are all threats that a standback and shoot dread needn't be facing.
Armies: Space Marines: 3500ptsSpace Wolves: 2000pts (in Progress)Click here to join Travian: http://www.travian.co.uk/?uc=uk5_662
i prefer my dread's with a plasma cannon and a DCCW. though i play dark angels/deathwing, so autocannons are easily outclassed by the amount of cyclone/typhoon missile launchers i can take elsewhere. anyways...
as far as my dreads go, i always move my ven dreads towards combat, where they make their biggest impact on the game imo, it's just about them into enemy units that can't fight back against av12 and then slowly killing them in the tarpit, or making them run to 1-2 casualties and killing them in the chase.
my dccw's have also claimed many an independant/special character as well, which is also a nice bonus when their cc all-star gets stuck into a combat he can't really fight back in and then subsequently killed in a manner imagined as those shown in dawn of war (picked up, crushed, and then thrown into the distance).
if you're really shy on anti-transport firepower, than the autocannons are probably for you. but roughly around the same points, i prefer an autolas predator (or 2) to crack tanks if it needs to be done from afar.
In regards to this point, what is the general consensus on deploying dreadnoughts in drop-pods? It seems like a good way to get your dread up close and personal with your opponent in a hurry. Plus then no matter what weapon you're armed with you're probably going to be getting side or back armour shots.In answer to your question, in most armies that can take one the relatively slow speed of a dread means he rarely makes it into combat and therefore the flexibility of a close combat weapon isn't particularly needed.
I wonder if there's anything like a 'consensus' about Podding Dreadnoughts. A single Dread in a Pod is an excellent early-game distraction but, beyond that, you need to make a really serious effort because of all the melta-type weapons that run around. Redundant Drop Pods get expensive and side shots are becoming irrelevant...it only matters against Predators, Chimeras and a couple other vehicles.
This happens to be my army's theme (BA Drop-Dread list) and I can say that it does work given skill and some luck. (Blood Angels is the best Codex for this because, in addition to not needing a MotF to take more than three Dreads, they have several ways for a CC Dread to move quickly.) A Vulkan-MotF list with normal, MM/HF Dreads is also decent.
Sometimes my list fails epically but, sometimes, it succeeds epically. As I said before, many players are so busy riding the powergame train that a Dreadnought's true capabilities have never registered. Razorback-spam players suddenly discover they have no room to maneuver. IG autocannon spam, facing my Furiosos, don't have a backup plan. Genestealers outflank into their own deployment zone rather than face a pair of ordinary Dreads. Ork mobs refuse to charge a Dread that Pods in behind them because it's a tarpit and the klaw-Nob is up front. And then, there was this one Grey Knight player who wasn't afraid of my ordinary Dreadnought, and so allowed it to charge his Purifier Spam-Squad. Purifying flame? Hammerhand? 20 power weapon attacks at I6, hitting automatically and rerolling to wound or whatever? Sorry, pal. This is a walker...do you have ANY powerfists in your army at all? No? Gosh, I feel really bad about outmatching you so badly that there's no need to even roll the dice. I guess your krak grenades might do something.
Look at the mathhammer and you'll see that Dreadnoughts are mostly useless. Look at the battle reports and you'll see that the true value of a Dreadnought is not the ability to overkill a designated target type...and those battle reports will be more interesting than "my Razorback-spam list faced his Chimera-spam list. He held the objectives because he got to go second".
"My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard
the drop pod dread sorta depends... it can be extremely situational and relies on careful placement to stain your enemies able to react to it.
i've only come against one lately, it dropped in, missed my vindicator (due to my cover save from popping smoke on the first turn as it was the most threatening vehicle in my list), and then my land speeder typhoon dealt with it in my following turn.
they're kinda expensive for the whole drop-in-and-melta-a-vehicle use. in best case scenarios, they'll pop a vehicle of hopefully equal value and then absorb enough retaliation attention away from your army letting it get closer easier. worst case scenario, it comes in, the one melta shot misses, and then its swiftly dealt with due to being near their big support guns.
that said, the more you drop in, the more viable they can become, as it can get harder to deal with them and the more of a threat they can possess against the enemy depending on their ability to handle those dreads possibly charging into their backlines the next turn. of course, another idea is popping smoke on them when they drop in and being a bit more survivable to last long enough to assault the enemy the next turn. i did this the one time i took a drop pod, and i like to believe it helped the dread survive 9 bolts of change before finally tarpitting into a unit of plaguebearers trying to hold their objective.
its just dependent on your list and how well they'll work in synergy with your other units.
for example, my 2 ven dreads on foot (which do always reach melee) advance with my deathwing termies and are very handy at intercepting high-attack but low-strength units while my termies deal with the vice versa (i don't mind a few 3++ saves but a lot of 2+ saves makes me nervous).
I've been wondering about this point recently, as it seems to me to be a lot more reliable to only take one dreadnought (which you know you are going to deploy on turn 1) than taking multiple dreads which will come in at some other time. However, I think this would only work with a highly mobile army (like Blood Angels) which could get in and work in tandem with the dreadnought right from the get go.that said, the more you drop in, the more viable they can become, as it can get harder to deal with them and the more of a threat they can possess against the enemy depending on their ability to handle those dreads possibly charging into their backlines the next turn.
I used to not like my dread, using him in 1000 point games he was always a failure.
Now I play 1750-2000 point games, his 105point cost is pretty small but he provides excellent *support*
I run him behind a Raider or Rhino, and he can engage and tarpit many enemies that would destroy my marines easily. Boyz, Tyranid Warriors, Grey Knights, virtually any Eldar infantry, Marine troops without Powerfists (which seems to be the reccomendation nowadays), Necrons; anything that can't kill it is pretty much out of the game once he gets stuck in. The vast majority of Infantry are S3 or 4 and have no hope of beating him, and even Krak grenades hit on a 6 and glance on a 6; not exactly impressive.
It helps also that there are lots of vehicles in my list, so it's not an easy choice to shoot him instead of my other goodies.