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  1. #1
    Son of LO ikbuh's Avatar
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    Retributers, Celestians, and the futre.

    I was browsing around other sites looking to get other people's views and thoughts about sisters and trying to compile new ideas and found that one thing kept popping up. Retributers with an Immolator. The idea was to take 6 with 4 heavy bolters and a Stormbolter on the superior with either a MM or HB Immo. It's nothing exactly new for us, but the discussion is really over the Immo/Stormbolter I suppose as the 6th member is for an ablative wound. Obviously, they wouldn't get into the immolator, but rather use it to support their fire or other people's fire. The stormbolter is there, I'm assuming, to add an extra long ranged rending shot. It makes for a nice fire base, and it can be more consistent than an Exorcist due to the massed fire combined with the TLMM, but you're generally paying for it (180pts). I wonder how 3 squads of those would work out vs 3 exorcists. Probably not as well, but it could be something to consider.

    Another thing I've been rolling around is finding a use for Celestians because everyone is against them, and what would seem rightfully so. The idea I've been toying around with is taking a squad of 9 with dual flamers, VVS with Plasma Pistol/Power weapon, and a Cannoness with IP/PW/Rosarius (295). The Cannoness drives up the price (by 115), but I think they'll be able to put a fair amount of damage down during the shooting and assault phases (Flamers+7BPs+IP+PP), and again have a fair amount of CC hitting power as well (28 S/I4 attacks, 4 of those are PW attacks, and 5 S4/I5 PW attacks all of which re-roll failed hits).

    Looking into the future, we have rumors to go off of. First is the rumor that squads that haven't moved can fire 2 rapidfire shots. If that's true, we might start seeing full Retributer squads with heavy bolters for a total of 24 rending shots for a modest 145 points. Sure, half of them are only S4, but each 6 is an automatic glance with a 2/3 chance to be a pen on AV 11, not to mention the havoc they'd cause against units on foot. The real downside is the threat range of 24" that might hold them back.

    The other rumor is that units with pistols might be able to use the strength of the pistol in CC with AP1/2 counting as rending. If that's true, I think the Celestian/Cannoness combo will become a little more viable. Why? That same squad is sudden putting out 24 S5 attacks, 4 S8 rending attacks, and 5 S9 rending attacks. I don't know how reliable that information is, but I've heard it multiple times. The problem is how exactly the mechanic would work. If the SoB dex was designed with 6th in mind, then it would make sense as to why we lost the iconic Evicerator, but retained the unused Plasma Pistol for our basic squads. It at least makes a bit of sense to me.

    What do you guys think?

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  3. #2
    Junior Member A.T.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ikbuh View Post
    Retributers with an Immolator.
    Having played multimelta razorbacks in the past I have a bit of a mental block when it comes to immolators - can't help but feel i'd be throwing my points away.

    Retributors ... 50/50 shot for ~9 tries at rending, another 5+ needed just to get up to something still less effective than an exorcist missile. If they were troops sure, but as heavy support I find it hard to take more than one, and even that is down to the random nature and vulnerability of the exorcists rather than any expectation of the retributors themselves.

    I think the unit is ok. I just think they are in the wrong slot to be viable and that faith in general is a train wreck.

    have a fair amount of CC hitting power as well (28 S/I4 attacks, 4 of those are PW attacks, and 5 S4/I5 PW attacks all of which re-roll failed hits).
    Two 3+ tests to get them going, and some assistance from your opponent as you'll need to be sitting around within charge range for a turn. Another 70 points for an EA rhino and a reliable faith roll.

    That's a huge, fragile chunk of points no easy way of getting a charge and which would get flattened if assaulted by other close combat units half their cost.
    Plus at 365 points, an HQ slot and an elite slot ... you could get jacobus, 9 death cultists in a rhino, and a whole squad of retributors or something to make up for lost firepower (slots allowing). You'd even have points left over.

    My preferred use for celestians is ... well frankly when I start to run out of other slots past 1500pts and decide I want two more special weapons without crimping on points somewhere for a slightly more expensive battle sister squad.

    That same squad is sudden putting out 24 S5 attacks...
    If true then celestians become even more worthless, as their faith power almost certainly wouldn't apply to pistol strength. Also free buff to space marines to redress the close combat change in 3...2...1...

    If the SoB dex was designed with 6th in mind, then it would make sense as to why we lost the iconic Evicerator, but retained the unused Plasma Pistol for our basic squads.
    I'm going to err on the side of GW incompetence here.
    Even the eviscerators we retained are priced for 3rd edition (everyone else gets them for 15pts), it's just a sloppy half-assed excuse for a codex release.

    Sorry to be so negative, but celestians and immolators in particular are almost without merit as a competitive unit selection when the armies you see day to day are space wolves and blood angels.

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