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Ive been toying with the idea of raven guard for a small army and was wondering a couple of things firstly.
Vanguard vets. I'd like to do vanguard vets with lightning claws and storm shields. Also I d like to give them jump packs. Which set would be best to go for for this?
Secondly at 1000 points I was thinking something like
5marines sarge with powersword and stormbolter in rhino or razorback
5 standard scouts
5man stern guard with drop pod
5man vanguard vets with jump packs lightning claws and storm shields.
Possibly a unit of three bikes but more likely a buff to the sternguard.
Would this style of list have merit? I mainly play in a friendly environment that is semi competitive.
Any help is much appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Vanguard vets could be amazing. Only they're just not.
They require a very specific build to work and even then it's chancy. They're going to scatter so you may not get your heroic intervention. And if you aren't planning on using your assault after deep striking then you shouldn't be taking vanguard. Termies are better.
The most effective way to use VV is with scout bikers. The locator beacon lets you put them where you want.
Weapons choices are up to you. Some lightning claws to put some initial wounds on. Maybe a powerfist or two depending on what you plan on killing. A couple storm shields for the nasty wounds. Relic blade on the sergeant.
To build them. Assault marines with the weapons from other kits. Forgeworld makes a boarding kit for marines with big boarding shields that would make good storm shields. You can convert lightning claws/powerfists from termies if you have to.
Shrike is actually a bad choice for vanguard. They can't run in a turn they do their heroic intervention thing. Which means they can't take advantage of fleet.
If you absolutely have your mind made up to run vanguard without something with a locator beacon run them as a blood angels spin off. Descent of angels makes them much more reliable.
Last edited by Attemptedm; December 19th, 2011 at 20:59.
your vanguards are super exspensive. somwhere along the lines of 70 points each from the top of my head. the problem is they still have only a 3+ save and one wound. since they dont have the 2+ that termies do to bounce off higher AP weapons. a good way to save points and still have an efective unit is to have 1 or 2 marines with only storm shields, then have a guy with a pair of claws a sargent with a relic blade and 2 guys with just a chain sword and bolt pistol. that way you have ablative wounds for low ap weaponry and volume of wound weapons while still having a core of power weapon dealing BAMF's.
Never give up. Never give up. HIT, HIT, HIT, HIT!
I have had a vary good load out for them that has proven vary useful many times, I give them just Plasma Pistols and that’s it no jump pack. I throw them in a razor and put a Librarian or Chaplain with them and so far its been vary useful for 340pts. In one game they took out a hole squad of Chaos Marines and then they took on a squad of Khorne Berzerkers and I only lost two of them. Getting five shots s7 ap2 on most squads makes the odds even before the assault. Now I have only used them against Marine type armies, so I don’t know how useful they would be dealing with horde armies but they did good taking out a chimera and then wiping out the vet squad inside, that was mainly do to the Librarian though. I also use them with jump packs and all power weapons and the Sergeant has pair Lighting Claws, but that is only for higher point matches. At that point value they become a large portion of your points, you could take two Rifle Dreadnaughts for that point value. Well that's how I use them when I do and they have yet let me down, in my experience they are good at taking out Space Marines and Termies as well, its just how you use them.
I agree with Volken's Own, it depends upon how you use them. I've had experience using VV with my Blood Angels, and they can be a game-changer if they're applied effectively. I would definitely echo the warning about sinking too many points into them. Let your Sergeant bring the big stick and maybe use a couple of the other guys to back that up, but don't give everyone PW's and PP's or something, then it gets rather pricey. I'd advocate having a purpose in mind for precisely how you'd like to use them, then kit the Sarge and a couple out for that purpose, then keep a couple basic to absorb a wound or two. For example(I know this is mor Blood Angel-specific, but it's an example), if I want to use my VV as anti-vehicle, I'll throw a couple Infernus Pistols(you could go with Plasma in your case) and deep strike them in behind what I want them to pop. Or, if I want to go charge their elite unit, I'll throw a couple Lightning Claws on the Sarge and a couple guys, then heroic intervention them. This generally turns out pretty well with BA VV's, you could definitely use the locator beacon idea for Vanilla Marines. If you can get the heavy hitters where you want, hopefully they'll do the rest. Then again, you never know what those dice will do... Best of luck.
"Confront them with annihilation, and they will then survive; plunge them into a deadly situation, and they will then live. When people fall into danger, they are then able to strive for victory." -Sun Tzu
I think I may have just been entranced by the option of lots of lightning claws! The idea of their use was to have them with shrike. They can thus infiltrate. Even in sight that's 18" from the enemy. Jump fleet and assault will get me in as that combo of moves is 19" minimum. I rolled out lightning claws and storm shields and on average they are taking out 30 orks boys including nob with power klaw to a loss of half their number.
As such I was thinking they'd be good to wipe out enemy squads. I might have to see if I can get their attacks down so they can win second round against normal sized stuff but I think I'm not going to be able to do that. The sternguard in the drop pod were poss going to get some combi meltas to hit vehicles out of their drop pod with the two troops holding objects and the razorback having say a las cannon for other vehicle killing.
I'll try and put a couple of potential lists up in a thread together for a little compare and contrast.
Thanks for all of the help so far!
Another option to look at is BA Vanguard, im afraid you will lose shrike's awesome, but you would only scattter 1d6 rather than 2on a deepstrike.
The other option is to take one large deadly vanguard squad with shrike and jump packs, and infiltrate, but rather than kitting out your entire squad, only do 1/2 of them, this saves some points, and the rest of the squad works as ablative armour.
this will cost only just less of 600 pts, but does give a turn 1 assault, combine this with drop podding sternguard, and you essentially have the ravenguard first company.
you would probably use scouts as your troops choices, partly to save on points, partly to infiltrate, and they are decent at close range or sniping.
This tactic gives you a massive advantage in terms of deployment, you deploy very little, and they deploy everything, but you dictate exactly where your army will work, if you get first turn, excellent! If you don't you should have infiltrated into some sort of cover, just in case, and you should be able to easily weather their shooting, and then the initiative is yours again.
I have used this list a couple of times, and haven't lost with it, but there have been some close calls. although most of your army is weak, (scouts arent as tough as normal marines, but oh well) you have the initiative, and so can dictate strategy, which will put you at ease, and make the other guy that bit more strained.
I play Blood Angels, deal with it.
I've played a squad of kitted-up Vanguards in an army, and while they can kill just about anything they assault, they really are too expensive for serious games. Heroic Intervention is extremely chancey, but if you spend points to give a locatopr beacon to Scout bikes or a drop pod, that's even more points.
The idea of loading Vanguard vets up with just plasma pistols is interesting; I wonder if it's more effective than using normal assault marines. You could put ten assault marines in a drop pod with three plasma pistols for 235 points... five Vanguard veterans with plasma pistols and a drop pod comes to the same 235 points. The Vanguard veterans get an extra two plasma shots, lose seven bolter pistol shots, and have five fewer ablative wounds. Or if you're feeling crazy I imagine you could have a full ten plasma-toting Vanguard veterans for 410 points total! But they're starting to look a lot like Sternguard with chainswords...
I've played a lot of different Shrike / Raven Guard forces and although I love my Vanguard Vets they rarely get any play-time due to being just so damn expensive. Usually I just join Shrike with normal Assault Squad and Outflank them in. When I do play the Vanguard Vets my full weapons-load for them is PF, LC, Double-LC, 3xPW and rest with just bolt pistols and chainswords. Though that is more because those are the models I have than any greater planning.
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