Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
Just out of curiosity does anyone field Ogryns or Ratlings? I've been playing around with the idea of taking a squad of each just to "spice" up my games and add a unpredictable element to my guard army. Feel free to talk about the pro's and con's for each as I have NO EXPERIENCE. Hope this provokes some good thought and like always Have fun!
I tried out all the obscure units and Ogryns were the biggest fail.
I ran 4 of them in a Chimera with a Primaris for dakka and to mop up weak or depleted units in assault. They did okay in the 3 or so games I tried them out in but I'll not be using them again.
Their main problem is they cost so damn much, leaving the rest of the army seriously under-strength. They don't hit hard enough to make good that shortfall and any genuine CC unit would make minced meat out of them.
If you want a CC beast take Straken. If Ogryns had furious charge and rending then maybe they'd be worth it but as it stands, keep clear.
The Ratlings are okay in squads of 5-6 and are probably just about worth their points. They work well with a psyker battle squad to pin down deathstar type units. They have marginal use VS high toughness monstrous creatures, but you're probably packing enough melta guns and other high strength weaponry to goop most MCs anyway.
If 6th edition improves sniper rifles I'd defiantly reconsider them but atm I don't use snipers.
Copy, Improve, Innovate
Thanks for the advice! I agree that if Ogryns were a alot cheaper both in points and in $ they would be feasible! Now that you bring up psyker battle squads........... I've also been thinking about giving them a go but to me it seems that with the strategies floating around this forum I cant see a way to get any real success with them but thats just me I guess
Nobody fields Ogryns or Ratlings. Both have leadership that is too poor for them to operate without support, and adding support makes them too expensive for what they do. Sniper rifles add little to a gunline and Ogryn don't have the stats to be decent at close combat.
Nork Deddog isn't too bad, though. He's still expensive but fun to add to any CC-oriented command squad, not that there are many of those. If you want snipers then I'd recommend a simple SW squad; they won't attract much attention.
I've tried the psyker battle squad and given up. So many of the armies I face are either stubborn, fearless or mechanized that their leadership debuff is useless. The blast template is fine but I like my Russes.
Alternative units to make your army special include Penal Legions, Armored Sentinels and the Russ Eradicator. Penals get a bad rep for their randomness but, speaking for myself, they're the source of half of my memorable games. Sentinels have fallen from popularity with the advent of the undercosted Vendetta but remain viable. They're about the cheapest vehicle right now, too, since they come in the battleforce box. The Eradicator is a very rare tank because it's a Heavy choice that can't hurt armor. If the rest of your list has enough anti-tank ability, however, then the Eradicator can set you apart and serve you well against infantry. In some ways it's even better than the Hellhound.
"My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard
I take the 8 psyker PBS in a Chimera because it costs the same as a meltavet squad and it makes it easy to drop them in and out of my lists without messing up the points values.
Some people have a lot of luck with smaller squads, say 6 or even the barebones 4 psyker squad. The reason being there's very little difference between LD4 and LD2 and a ST6 blast still wounds marines on a 2+.
The weaken resolve is countered by fearless and stealth but I don't think the USRs are as common as is often claimed in discussions about the PBS. The armies I can think of off the top of my head are:
Some CSM builds...
So I mean that's not the majority by any means and there are some exceptions even in these armies. For example Fateweaver is REALLY susceptible to weaken resolve and outflanking Genestealers normally operate outside of synapse range. It's very nice to hit them with a single flamer and weaken their resolve to send them running, just make sure you position to keep them running. Also the large blast with variable AP is going to get some AP1 or 2 shots throughout the game and that will murder Deathwing. If you can get it early so much the better. Personally I find they're useful maybe 80% of the time. Sometimes they're just useless but I normally find a role for them and when they work they're devastating. Forcing powerful characters off because the squad they're attached to took over 50% casualties is great and really reverses the normal logic that putting ICs in big squads is good protection. Think of Ghazzy in a unit of 20 boyz, for example. You don't even need to kill him, they just run.
For tactics, weaken resolve is really the most powerful when used with outflankers or with Marbo.
The reason being these troops can escort backfield units off the board, even marines with "And They Shall Know No Fear". So long as you place Marbo within 6 inches of where you think they will be after they've fallen back (9 times out of 10 just being behind the unit is enough) they're almost guaranteed to run off the board due to being compelled to fall back twice before enemy shooting can attempt to save them.
Copy, Improve, Innovate
You know, I love Ratlings. They have the coolest "anecdote" in the current codex, with a Ratling killing a Tau Etheral. However, this awesomeness doesn't translate to gameplay. If Ratlings didn't have to take morale checks, however, they would be a top tier unit, but that's just me.
How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.
Company banners and "get back in the fight" both help them a great deal. LD6 rerollable has like a 2/3rds chance of success, it's around LD8 equivalent.
There's a rumour that in 6th ed rumour sniper rifles allow you to allocate every third hit, starting from the first... if that's true then that makes them totally viable. They'd be great for taking out single wound HQs etc.
Copy, Improve, Innovate
I just recently used Ratlings in a game and i got some lucky roles and was able to kill a full tac squad but other than that i haven't had much luck with them. In my CCS i use straken and nork with alot of luck I charged a dred and killed it most of my squad to was lost too but it was a fun kill and it pissed of my opponent.
Straken will eat a dreadnought for breakfast, no problem, but does Nork really add anything to that party beyond what a regular 15 point bodyguard offers?
His strength will barely scratch the front of a Dread so he's just expensive ablative wounds. Even worse, a Dread with a DCCW goes up to ST10 and hits with a power weapon which will deal instant death to Nork and bypass his save & FNP. For the cost of Nork you could take 2x advisors, a medic and a bodyguard. That gives you more ablative wounds than Nork has and FNP makes Straken absurdly hard to kill. Power weapons can overcome it but it's easy to allocate out those wounds if you have the bodyguard.
Copy, Improve, Innovate