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  1. #1
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    Space Marines.. Vanilla or Blood Angels..?

    So I'm thinking of starting a Space Marine army as a project but I'm not sure if I should pick Vanilla Marines or Blood Angels. I'm leaning a bit towards Blood Angels because they can apparantly have more Dreadnoughts then others and have more kinds to chose between, But at the same time I'm not sure about Blood Angels because I heard they are all about assaulting and I want to be able to do some shooting aswell.. So, Do Blood Angels have diferent options and a bit of shooting aswell? Or should I go for vanilla marines?


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  3. #2
    Son of LO Polaria's Avatar
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    Blood Angels make a good mixed army. Meaning that your Troops will still be Assault, but you will have plenty of shooting firepower from Predators, Dreadnoughts and Razorbacks. This works very well because Blood Angel Assault Squads ar so damn cheap that it pretty much counters the increased price of vehicles... Which happen to gain Fast in the deal, too.

    For pure shooting army Blood Angels are decent, but not really the best choice. This is because their Tactical Squads gain nothing usefull from being Blood Angels and their vehicles still stay expensive, meaning that for the same price you get far more pure dakka if you go with Vanilla Codex... and you also gain Combat Tactics, which is actually pretty ace ability once you learn to use it right.

    As for options... Well, it depends on exactly how competitive you wish to be. Mechanized Blood Angels are probably the strongest build, followed by Descent of Angels all-jump-packing deep strike builds. They CAN do decent Drop Pod lists and Dreadnought lists, but the competitiveness of those options is up to debate.

    Vanilla marines can do Mechanized and Biker lists which are pretty solid. They can also do decent Drop Pod and Dreadnought lists, maybe better than Blood Angels, but I'm not sure if even they can make Drop Pods or Master of Forge lists top-tier competitive. Overall, Vanilla has more options as long as you don't try to make them into assault list.
    Last edited by Polaria; February 20th, 2012 at 21:28.
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    Alright, I dont want pure shooting, I'd like a balanced force that can do both (I dont mean excell at both, Just be able to do both) Are the tactical marines worse/more expensive then vanilla tactical marines or are they just the same? I realy like Dreadnoughts so i'd probably want atleast 1 of each kind.. XD

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    Son of LO Polaria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merellin View Post
    Alright, I dont want pure shooting, I'd like a balanced force that can do both (I dont mean excell at both, Just be able to do both) Are the tactical marines worse/more expensive then vanilla tactical marines or are they just the same? I realy like Dreadnoughts so i'd probably want atleast 1 of each kind.. XD
    If you want a balanced list Mechanized Blood Angels is pretty much the best deal. Its solid on both assault and shooting. On Dreadnought front you have to settle for not getting Ironclads, though, as they are not available to Blood Angels. Instead, Blood Angels get Furioso dreads. If you want to excell at both assault and shooting, then go Space Wolves.
    Revenant Moon Necrons: (W/L/D) 0/1/0 (6th edition: 13/2/2)(5th edition: 14/6/4)(3rd edition Codex: 16/4/7)
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    Yeah, I'v seen from the GW website that Blood Angels dont have the Ironclad or Venerable. But they got Furioso, Death Company and Librarian instead! Are they all good and viable? Blood Angels seem nice, I like the thought of having multiple dreadnoughts and Sanguinary Guards looks awesome too! ^_^

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    I realy like Dreadnoughts
    Then Blood Angels are probably your best choice. On the one hand, they don't need the Master of Forge to unlock multiple Dreadnought options. On the other hand, BA Dreads are lacking in ranged combat, which means a Dread-heavy list will probably end up focused around Drop Pods or Storm Ravens. I chose the former and enjoy my Drop-Dread list (BA Assault squads are excellent Pod troops) but I can't call it tournament-capable.

    All Blood Angels need a reasonable firebase, no matter how focused they might be on close combat. Purist Descent of Angels lists have remarkably large, exploitable weaknesses.

    Are BA tactical marines worse/more expensive then vanilla tactical marines
    They're exactly the same, as are Scouts. You don't see many Tacticals in BA lists because most players sign up for the jump troops or discounted Razorbacks, that's all.

    The Librarian Dreadnought is fun and effective. It's the only Dreadnought that can truly scare a Monstrous Creature. Moving as jump infantry is great fun but comes at the price of no extra armor. Best of all, at least for me, is that the Libbie Dread is the bane of Grey Knights everywhere. Force weapons don't work on vehicles, it has a psychic hood and neither Strength 6 nor Initiative 6 Marines can bother its front armor. It's a one-unit answer to Purifier spam! Even Draigowing Terminators can struggle, if they went light on thunder hammers.

    The Furioso is a strong performer. Extra armor and the grapple are must-haves; the latter is basically a second meltagun. Talons aren't so special, though. They don't insta-kill Marines or do much against vehicles.

    DC Dreads, like the infantry variant, are a love-hate thing. Excellent stats versus mandatory movement. The Fleet rule and free extra armor are huge buffs, yet I miss the Furioso's higher AV. When I use these, I bring ten DeathCo to unlock two of them. I run the infantry with only bolters and a Drop Pod; they're efficient at culling the enemy's weaker numbers.

    Avoid the Sanguinary Guard. They...are simply lacking.


    As for what the rest of your list might be? Assault squads with either jump packs, Razorbacks or Rhinos are great. Tacticals are fine but none of our characters do much to support them. Neither our bikes nor our Terminators can be scoring but, with a Priest's benefits, can easily be made into Death Stars that Vanilla Marines can't match.

    A mech approach could see lots of Rhinos with a Land Raider centerpiece, or three Storm Ravens, or Razorbacks alongside our heavy Dreads. An infantry approach would involve plenty of jump troops, maybe supporting a Drop Pod element or with Libbie Terminators keeping pace (three psychic hoods!), under cover of Predators or Devastators. There are plenty of ways to go!
    "My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard

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    A bit dissapointed to hear that the Sanguinary Guard arent so good, and that the Dreadnoughts are lacking in range but I am thinking of getting the Blood Angels. And if nothing else, It probably wont be too hard to swap between Marine Armies once you have a few models ^_^ Thanks for all the replies! I'l probably go for Blood Angels ^_^

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    IMO Vanilla is too boring; there are no real units that scare people, because everything is average and nothing is very good at anything. You can't watch your opponent sweat in his fear because you've just disembarked your Furious Charge Sword Brethren CC Termies and moved your 20 man Crusader Squads, or you've got Mephiston/Death Company/Sanguinary Guard in charging range, or you've got a really mean list with Belial or Sammael in. In Vanilla you take one of the mediocre characters on offer, you take your tanks, you take your Tactical and you take your Terminators. Rinse, repeat until the end of time.
    Last edited by Sharpie; February 21st, 2012 at 21:45.

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    Senior Member Blackadder's Avatar
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    I would honestly give the fluff a quick read-through also to see what you like in the army Having an effective list is all well and good, but if you hate the fluff behind it you won't get nearly as much satisfaction out of your little plastic men than you would if you liked their background also.

    I'd suggest giving this web-page a read:-

    Blood Angels - Lexicanum - gives pretty much all the info about the Blood Angels you could want really

    You can also search for other chapters in there too.

    The other thing to remember about vanilla marines is that you could do pretty much any chapter you fancy, one of the codex ones, such as Ultras, Salamanders, White Scars etc, or just make your own up (e.g name... Space Chickens)

    To answer your question regarding blood angels, honestly I'm not sure as I don't have the 'dex, but the way I view them is as regular marines, as they have all the units of the vanilla 'dex, with some added extra units, characters, and force organisation tweaks to better fit their fluff/character/play style, which in the case of Blood Angels means assault. (E.g. Assault Squads are troop choices, so are death-company, and there are some pretty nasty close combat characters in there too). But even then, that doesn't mean you could not create a shooty Blood Angels list if you wanted, as they are still marines, and so are competant with their guns - as I said, the list still retains vanilla marine units, such as Tac Squads, Devastators, and shooty tanks, so it really does (in my opinion) come down to which fluff you like best!

    If you tell us what kind of character or play-style you want your marines to have, we may be able to suggest a chapter for you (e.g infiltration might be Raven Guard, bike spam might be White Scars etc).

    EDIT: I see you've gone with Blood Angels giving all the posts a second read haha. They're not my cup of tea but you might well do ok with them - since I can't really offer you any specific advice regarding Blood Angels past what I've already said I'll let the more experienced Bangel players teach you their stuff. I will say this though - Ultramarines are better than Blood Angels haha.
    Last edited by Blackadder; February 22nd, 2012 at 18:10.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpie View Post
    IMO Vanilla is too boring; there are no real units that scare people, because everything is average and nothing is very good at anything. You can't watch your opponent sweat in his fear because you've just disembarked your Furious Charge Sword Brethren CC Termies and moved your 20 man Crusader Squads, or you've got Mephiston/Death Company/Sanguinary Guard in charging range, or you've got a really mean list with Belial or Sammael in. In Vanilla you take one of the mediocre characters on offer, you take your tanks, you take your Tactical and you take your Terminators. Rinse, repeat until the end of time.
    Not having to rely on gimmicks is a strength of the codex, not a weakness. Vanilla players do well through the time honoured methods that made marines good in the first place - tactical flexibility and maneuver warfare.

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