Objective-Grabbing Scouts: Snipers or Bolters? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Blackadder's Avatar
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    What's the best ALL PURPOSE equipment for Scouts?

    See my latest post, the question has changed

    Last edited by Blackadder; February 25th, 2012 at 19:41.

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  3. #2
    EWOP adamwelton's Avatar
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    I personally think that's too soon. Scouts are too weak to take and hold that early on in any game. There are two types of Scout squad-the ranged (Cloaks & Snipers/Heavy Bolters or Bolters/Missile Launcher). these sit on the defensive picking off suitable targets. They can be lifted by transport onto the enemy objective towards the end of the game. A risky alternative to this is to Deep Strike a Landspeeder Storm onto the objective and deposit a squad of these. They won't last long but the Speeder will help them last a turn longer. The second type is the assault squad-Sergeant with Powerfist/Power weapon & Plasma Pistol and the squad equipped with Bolt Pistol/CCW or Shotgun. This unit is good for deployment from Speeder Storms onto objectives, where they can at least contest with the help of the Speeder's Heavy Flamer untl the main force arrives. You should be able to combat squad a full ten-man unit in order to perform both these tasks in objective games.

    I divide my squads into two elements-the defensive team covers the assault one then it gets picked up and brought in to support the assault team in holding the objective. Scouts aren't much good generally but they're useful for dealing with weak enemy units and sudden suicide attacks when you either haven't the resources to allocate to objective management or are too busy elsewhere with your specialists. Half and half in your squads, combat squad them then go form there.
    Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world.

  4. #3
    Senior Member bladeofdeath3's Avatar
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    Do you plan to have the scouts hold the objectives or are they there just to babysit it until heavier troops come? If you infiltrate onto an objective, snipers may be the way to go with a heavy bolter and a power fist and bolter sarge. This is if you plan to have them hold the objective the whole game. If you want them to run up to an objective, I would argue go with bolters since you may encounter an enemy who's near the objective or already on the objective. Again, go with a heavy bolter and a power fist/bolter sarge. The problem with scouts is that they aren't as tough and not as good in combat as marines, which are marginally more expensive than them. While shotguns do seem attractive since they're assault weapons, they become almost useless defensively since they have a shorter range. Bolt Pistols/CCW have the same problem as shotguns as they're excellent while fighting close enemies (12" to cc) but are useless at anything else. If you think the objective will be in cover, camo cloaks wouldnt' be a bad idea, but they can start to make the unit expensive. I guess the main question is what do you plan to do after you take the objective?

    Whenever I use scouts, I almost always go snipers/heavy bolter. However, I don't use them to take and hold objectives since I use tactical marines for that.
    Last edited by bladeofdeath3; February 24th, 2012 at 22:18.

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    EWOP adamwelton's Avatar
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    Nice one blade. Good to see someone else not having some sort of childish paddy at the thought of someone not doing what they do in every tournament.
    Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world.

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    Senior Member Blackadder's Avatar
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    Well the idea is to use them to infiltrate and objectvie turn 1/before game, and simply to hold it untill the tactical marines and 2 captains arrive*. They're meant to harrass the enemy and to hold the position, or, if they're going to be swarmed/over-whelmed, to pull out, regroup with the tacs who by that time should be getting close to the objective, and aid them in a counter-attack involving the captains, tacs, and flamers. To be honest I'm thinking (for the scouts) in this role, either snipers, Bolt Pistols & CCWs, or Shottys, with maybe a power fist on the sergeant.

    * I generally do smaller lists, and the way I'm painting my marines is so that I can have 2 chapters on the field at once, hence 2 captains, this list is 750, and said captains have relic blade & Bolt Pistol, and pwoer fist and bolt pistol, they'll be leading 2 combat squadded units of tac marines, both of which will have the sergeants and flamers.

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    EWOP adamwelton's Avatar
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    Pick the assault kit then as they're more versatile. Moving about too much will waste a ranged squad with heavy type weapons. Don't forget that Scouts also Flank, so leaving an assault squad to do so within two movement turns of an objective can do the job just as well, and if they don't arrive close enough they can still move to take the pressure off a Tac squad thus leaving it to take and hold.
    Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world.

  10. #7
    Senior Member bladeofdeath3's Avatar
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    If that's how you're using them, I would say go with snipers and heavy bolter. Depending on where the objective is and how your opponent deploys, you may get to start shooting turn 1. I would say you should always have a power fist/bolter on your sarge in the extreme case where you have to assault armor or monstrous creatures. I like your hold/harass and fall back strategy, but it only really works if your tactical marines are in rhinos so they can get to the fighting soon.

    I guess it would all depend on the context of the mission. In a straight up take and hold mission, it's important to remember that it doesn't matter who holds the objective first, but who holds it last. A lot of people I've played against often forget this and over commit to hold an objective that is being overrun. Mind you we're playing in larger point games, but the concept is still there. Also, another scenario I've seen only in tournaments is one which you get points every turn you hold an objective. Your strategy has its merits, but I can see mechanized marines being a real problem for you.

    Also, for your captains, run relic blade/bolter on both if you can. You captain has a high initiative, why are you bringing it down with a power fist. Also, since captains are ICs, they can be targeted in close combat by enemies. The biggest threat to a captain in close combat is an enemy sergeant with a power fist. They can target you, but you can't target them. Also, power fists on all your sergeants except for devastators is kinda a standard.

  11. #8
    Senior Member Blackadder's Avatar
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    Thanks for the comments.

    I must admit I'm leaning more toward snipers and heavy bolters than CCWs, although If they were given CCWs or shottys they could participate more in an assault to re-take an objective.

    As for the tacs, I wasn't really planning on making them walk 6' a turn all the way there I was planning on running them. Although obviously that is not a reliable strategy, so it may require a re-think, but I don't really want to mechanise if I can, as I don't want to have to buy all the tanks (in £ or points). The Captain I certainly understand your criticism, problem is, my Crimson Fist Captain is already fully built with (yeah, you guessed it) a Power Fist, and I don't really want to change him to be honest, as he looks cool... on the other hand I don't know whether people would let it pass me saying he's got a relic blade, when the model itself has a power fist :/ - the Ultra Captain is no problem, as I've got 1 that is armed with a Bolt Pistol & power sword/relic blade, and another that is armed with a Bolter (it's the tyrannic war vet).

    Speaking of which, would you mind helping me with a little modelling conundrum on the war vet captain? I would like to model him with some kind of CCW, as currently the model only carries the bolter and nades:-
    Ultramarines Tyranic War Veterans 2 | Games Workshop (it's the one on the right)

    The bolter itself isn't the problem, the problem is that the nades on his back (which you can't see) don't really leave room for any other stuff (like a combat knife or sheathed sword or what have you) so I was wondering:-

    1) Would it be impossible to make room for a CCW/Sheathed sword of some kind? I can post pics of the back of the model if it'll be helpful.

    2) What weapon would you suggest? - I've already given the below from the Fantasy Empire range a look at, but I'm not sure any of them look sufficiently like a power sword or relic blade to warrant the conversion (the ones with the * are the ones I think look best) - unfortunately there aren't many sheathed swords in the 40k range. But if you could suggest any or give your opinion on the below (which is best, if it looks like a power sword etc) then I would be grateful.

    BitzBox - Warhammer and 40k Plastic Bits
    BitzBox - Warhammer and 40k Plastic Bits
    BitzBox - Warhammer and 40k Plastic Bits
    BitzBox - Warhammer and 40k Plastic Bits
    BitzBox - Warhammer and 40k Plastic Bits
    BitzBox - Warhammer and 40k Plastic Bits *
    BitzBox - Warhammer and 40k Plastic Bits *
    BitzBox - Warhammer and 40k Plastic Bits *

    Thanks

    EDIT: Do you think I could do the same to the fists captain actually? Having a sheathed sword could allow me to say he has a power-weapon/relic blade, without the thing of removing his power fist (which I can just say is part of his armour or something)...

  12. #9
    Senior Member bladeofdeath3's Avatar
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    The assault on black reach captain works well for relic blade/bolter. I have the model you're referencing. Both of them are damn nice models. Unfortunately, the older metal GW sculpts require a lot of work to mod them to what you want. If you're good at that, I wouldn't hesitate to mod it. The only problem I can see with him having a sheathed sword is that he may blend in with the other tactical marines (having a bolter and all), and you're opponents might not be too happy. As for your crimson fist in game, it's totally up to your opponent. In a casual game, I don't see it as a problem as long as the player announces what the model is before the game and remembers the entire game.

  13. #10
    Son of LO Polaria's Avatar
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    For objective holding snipers with cloaks, a ML and a PF or PW. 5 models is enough as it won't get that much better with 10 models.

    For objective grabbing CCWs with PF and 10 models or CCWs with 5 models in Storm. My friend uses former, I use later and both have worked fine.
    Last edited by Polaria; February 25th, 2012 at 09:53.
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