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Quite simple really, do you think this set-up for Sternguard will be good for assaulting and general killing...
Sternguard x 10 - 10 Combi-flamers - 300
Supported by a Captain with Relic Blade, who'll either join the unit, or walk really close to it and basically do exactly what it does
Flanked on either side with 2 combat squadded Tac Marine units, both combat squads having a sergeant and flamer in them.
The basic idea is to walk up to whatever it is I want to assault, flamer spam it with 10-12 templates, then charge it.
Well what do you think? Could it work? Would the Sternguard be better broken down into 2 squads of 5? Would their sergeants benefit from some kind of CC weapon also?
Finally, since this unit is supposed to represent a Death-Watch Kill Team, is it fluffy for deathwatch?
It would help if the sergeant had a power fist as this is good for combat.
But, i dont recommend them for combat as their combat abilities are the same as normal tactical marines and since they cost less. I won't recommend as well using ten of them unless you use pedro kantor as with that amount of points, you should get a terminator squad wich can still shoot and are better at assualt.
IMO, Sternguard are always a fluffy unit for Deathwatch. My own Sternguard is also painted in Sternguard colors.
As for the effectivity, I think 10 combi-flamers is both over- and underkill at the same time. Against Orks, Guard, non-MC 'nids and even normal MEQs it is overkill by far since it basically kills your enemy before you can assault. Of course you can choose to fire only some of the combi-flamers and use bolt pistols with others, but then again even 5 combi-flamer templates will be overkill most of the time and how many times you think you need to assault something in one game?
At the same time it is underkill, since the flamers don't do you much favour if you have to assault something really hard like GK Termies or MCs... or anything that is inside a metal bawks. For this purpose I'd go with 5 combi-flamers and 5 combi-meltas instead.
Revenant Moon Necrons: (W/L/D) 0/1/0 (6th edition: 13/2/2)(5th edition: 14/6/4)(3rd edition Codex: 16/4/7)
XIX Legion: (W/L/D) 0/0/0 (5th edition: 14/12/2)(5th edition Codex: 4/3/0)
Black Legion: (W/L/D) 1/0/0 (6th edition: 2/3/0)
Something Wicked... Reikwald Beastmen: (W/L/D) 10/4/1
I wouldnt recommend combi meltas at all since hes using them with his captain and hes very likely going to try and get into assault as soon as possible.
I think he does have too combi weapons but however i would only take about 3
I should clarify the purpose of this set-up is to relieve a group of scouts who will take and hold objectives turn 1, but will turn tail and retreat if the enemy try and assault them, so this unit (along with the tacs and captain) is either a releaving force for the scouts, or a counter-attack force. I'm not really concerned how they do it, whether they roast whatever the thing is totally and utterly so that they can just waltz in unopposed, or whether they'll have to fix bayonets and charge after said roasting. Once that task is done, they'll act pretty much normally, so chances are I'd just use all my flamers at that moment anyway, and then if I needed to charge into combat, use the 2 tac squads with their (if I can find the points) soon to be beefed up sergeants and the captain.
My only slight niggle is that if the scouts aren't attacked, and then the sternguard arrive, once they try and press the attack against the enemy, they might have some distance to go before they get into assault range.
Keep the advice on the flamers coming
Don't forget, do you think I should break 'em down into 2 squads of 5? And does the set-up of combi-flamers seem fluffy for deathwatch? As burning stuff seems to be more the Sister's trick haha.
Last edited by Blackadder; February 29th, 2012 at 18:35.
Break them down into combat squads would be my choice as it helps you spread out your forces making your army more maneuverable
Watch it about the flamers, if your lokking for some fast unit or outflanking unit to come down the flank, flamers aren't ideal as they will usually have quite few numbers and have decent armour( jetbikes in particular). Using combi plasmas might help a bit more but they cost more but it is down to you.
Another thing, if your lokking for a unit to support scouts, i wouldnt use sternguards as you waste their time defending nothing if your opponent doesnt decide to attack you but go after the other objectives. Use something like devastators as their long range guns can reach almost everywhere on the board. One turn they could kill the outflankers, then they can quickly change target and shoot something else. That brings another point, if your sterns dont have a transport then how are they going to get back into the action once they finished their guarding duty, they dont have any long ranged guns so once they've shot and killed the enemy, they wont very likely go and get grips with another enemy unit.
If you do decide to use flamers, remember they're for assault so you are going to have to give them a transport like a rhino or raxorback if combat squadding them and they are good against hordes as their bolters are good against MEQs or weaker.
The combiflamers won't do much against MCs, but they'll bake pretty much everything else when you're throwing out that many wounds - even Terminators will roll 1's if you throw enough dice at them. All I can suggest is a special weapon on the sergeant and adding Pedro into the unit so they all get 4 attacks on the charge.
Yeah i like the idea of 4 attacks on charge but in the end, it will cost 500 points(!) just for one unit so jut make sure you have enough versatility in your army to make up for it. When you do add Pedro though, downgrade the size of your sternguard squad because as said above, it costs a lot of points for this one unit and even in 200 points games, i'll think this squad will struggle to earn back the sufficient points that you paid for them.
True for the flamers but the fact is that if you flame the terminators, most of the time not all of them will go down so you'll have a powerfist for the sergeant as the power weapon only is good when he's holding a pistol so you get the extra attack.( plus it's stronger and wounds termies on a 2+ )
So the (mixed) consensus is that they will do the job that I want them to do, due to the sheer amount of flamer template wounds there will be, but it may well be wise to possibly downgrade the number of templates to buy something CC killy on the sergeant (e.g. a Power Fist)... ok, I think I could manage that, lets see, I think I'd have to drop 5 flamers in order to get a power fist... reckon they'd still be effective with half the burny killy goodness? - As I say, I'm not concerned about how they achieve their goal, burning it to nothing will be just as satisfying as chopping it up should the burning fail, so I really do think on this point at least, it'll come down to personal preference, as a Power fist costs as much as 5 combi-flamers.
Also, a note on Kantor, while I do like the model, remember that these Sternguard are actually going to be a Deathwatch Kill Team - and the leader of the army is himself going to be from the Ordo Xenos, so Kantor just isn't an option. As someone else said too, practically too, it's not viable, as they're just too expensive with Kantor, and this list is only 1k lol
Last edited by Blackadder; February 29th, 2012 at 20:27.
I'll repeat the previous concerns over armored targets. Combi-flamer spam will let them one-shot a 30 Ork mob but they'll fail against a single Chimera. You're also working with a small window of opportunity: after the enemy appears/dismounts within flamer range but before they successfully charge those Scouts you mentioned.
Besides, Scouts can handle most horde-type enemies. It makes more sense to kit Sternguard for killing the bigger threats and, should lesser infantry present themselves, just rely on their statline for CC.This bears rethinking. It's usually better to have Scouts appear in the mid-to-late game than right at the beginning. The only time I infiltrate my Scouts is to guide in a Pod Assault, after which they retreat to safety.a group of scouts who will take and hold objectives turn 1
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