Rules Test: Commissar Ciaphas Cain in the 5th edition - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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    Rules Test: Commissar Ciaphas Cain in the 5th edition

    Hi, I'm new here, so I'm not too sure if there is already an active thread on this. Anyway, I absolutely love the Commisar Cain books, and I'd really love to use him in a game one day. Here's my take on the character:

    Commissar Ciaphas Cain
    (110 pts)(HQ Unit)

    WS BS S T W I A Ld S
    5 5 3 3 3 3 3 10 4+

    Wargear:
    Laspistol, Carapace armor, Close Combat Weapon

    Special Rules:

    Dedicated Transport (optional as per IG Codex)
    Independent Character
    Aura of Leadership (As Lord Commissar)
    Stubborn (As Commissar)

    Friendly Commissar:
    Cain is a friend to his troops (so that they are less likely to shoot him in the back). He may not use the Summary Execution rule. He may still execute Psykers under It's For Your Own Good.

    Arms Master:
    Cain has spent thousands of hours in grueling training with his weapons, the better to keep his skin intact, and has become a virtuoso with them. His Laspistol has the Sniper property and his close combat weapon has the Rending property.

    Survival Instincts:
    Cain has a a 5+ invulnerable save. Also, he will never assault an enemy unit on his own, only when he is attached to a Guard unit.

    Constructive Cowardice:
    Cain has got running away down to a fine art, as he abhors stand-up fights.

    Cain (and any unit he is part of) get +2 to cover instead of +1 when they go to ground (either voluntarily or as a failed test). If the unit is going to ground due to an Incoming! order, the total bonus is a +3.

    Cain confers the Hit and Run rule on any unit he is part of. Cain and his unit receive +1 to Initiative tests while disengaging using Hit and Run and to avoid enemy Sweeping Advances while falling back.

    After falling back, Cain and his unit automatically regroup, even if they would not normally be allowed to.



    Gunner's Aide Jurgen (50 pts)

    WS BS S T W I A Ld S
    3 4 3 3 2 3 2 7 4+

    Wargear: Meltagun, Carapace armor, Close Combat Weapon, Frag and Krak grenades

    Gunner's Aide Jurgen is selected in place of a Bodyguard in the Company Command Squad, and gains the Look Out - Arrgh! special rule, except as noted under his unique His Master and Commander rule.

    Special Rules:
    His Master and Commander: Jurgen's true loyalty lies with Commissar Cain. If Ciaphas Cain is in the same army as Jurgen, then Jurgen will automatically be attached to Cain, and will attach himself to any unit Cain does. He no longer takes up a Bodyguard slot on the Company Command Squad (even if Cain is attached to the Command Squad). He retains the Look Out - Arrgh! special rule, only it now applies to Cain instead of the company commander.

    Psychic Blank:
    Any psychic power with a target or origin within 6" of Jurgen must re-roll any successful psychic tests (this does not negate a Perils of the Warp resulting from a double 1). Any psychic power with a target or origin within 3" of Jurgen automatically fails (no roll required).

    Last edited by Gramlin Jack; April 10th, 2012 at 21:11.

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    Member Willance's Avatar
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    Some slight changes, I belive Cain wears Flak armor for a 5+ save. Also, the weapon rules seem excessive for the points.
    Army's used: Space Wolves, Tomb Kings, High Elves, Tyranids, Tau and Eldar.

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    He took to wearing Carapace after the first few books. As in, he was issued carapace due to some risky mission, then 'forgot' to return it.

    What do you think would be a better point cost? 120? Can't be much higher, a regular Sniper weapon is worth only 5 points, and a Rending Weapon isn't any better than a Power Weapon.

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    He's a funny character but one who's hard to really encapsulate in a rule set. This seems a pretty good attempt.

    40k doesn't have any explicit rule that a 1 always fails, so casting "incoming" on his squad would give them an unfailable cover save. I don't see the need for them to have a +3 to their cover save anyway. +2 is already amazing.

    I wouldn't call his summary execution rule "friendly commissar" it sounds a bit naff. "Paternal" would maybe fit it better or even "Lacks Resolve".

    I like his rules for falling back although auto-regrouping is pretty amazing. I guess it's like he's automatically casting "get back in the fight".

    You're paying probably about 30 points for his abiltiies which seems light. I'd give him a price tag of 130 which (assuming 5 for each of the weapons) gives a price tag of 50 points for the abilities. That seems fairer. Hit and Run on a blob squad would be crazy-good.
    Copy, Improve, Innovate

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    It's too bad this is too late for the competition, it would definitely get my vote. I think you did well on translating Cain's behavior to a set of rules. Nicely done!
    ------------------------------------
    Innovation suffuses this hobby like a tea bag in the boiling water of play.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Korona View Post

    40k doesn't have any explicit rule that a 1 always fails, so casting "incoming" on his squad would give them an unfailable cover save. I don't see the need for them to have a +3 to their cover save anyway. +2 is already amazing.
    Actually, they do explicitly state that no save can be improved to better than a 2+. And there's several weapons which ignore cover saves. An extra +1 when a unit goes to ground (and thus unable to move, shoot, or assault for one whole turn) is not that great.

    So, you think 130 would be a fair price for Cain? All right, I guess I can accept that.

    What about Jurgen, is 50 good for him? His ability is rather specific.

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    Hi,

    I actually did start a thread about this back in March so it's nice to see I'm not the only one that wants Cain in their army!!

    http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...in-jurgen.html

    I think with Jurgen the only way he could be taken is with Cain, so I'm not sure about having him in the CCS?

    I think he always carried a lasgun - every trooper does and it's a summary execution otherwise - so you do need some way to get both in there imho.


    The real problem with Cain & Jurgen is that we're trying to incorporate characters who as fictional heroes in a book never die and always win into a fictional game system that has to allow them to both die & lose on occasion - tricky!

    I look forward to seeing your further ideas!
    Only an idiot fights a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the kingdom of idiots would fight a war on twelve fronts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vorlon View Post
    Hi,

    I actually did start a thread about this back in March so it's nice to see I'm not the only one that wants Cain in their army!!

    http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...in-jurgen.html

    I think with Jurgen the only way he could be taken is with Cain, so I'm not sure about having him in the CCS?

    I think he always carried a lasgun - every trooper does and it's a summary execution otherwise - so you do need some way to get both in there imho.
    I went and read your thread. Very well written, I should've included more flavor myself. I also notice quite a few points we agree on I considered giving Cain Eternal Warrior, but Cain doesn't so much shrug off injuries as avoid them entirely (besides making him even more expensive). And the ability ro give orders seems to cross into Officer territory - from what I remember, in the books, Cain always favored a very hands-off approach to battlefield command.

    We can give Jurgen a Lasgun, sure, I just thought it would be redundant with him already having a meltagun. As for the bit about him negating a Daemon's invulnerable and eternal warrior while in base contact - me likee! Can we include that to the abilities we already while keeping Jurgen at 50 points? I don't want him to be much above 50.

    I made Jurgen selectable independent of Cain because Color Seargent Kell is selectable independent of Creed. Taking the two as a package would make it very expensive, and players might simply want Jurgen's blank abilities. It could be argued that if Cain tells Jurgen to protect a senior officer, Jurgen would obey the order as faithfully as every other (while Cain himself sits the battle out at Divisional HQ :p )

    But what did you think of my take on Cain? Is 130 points good for what he's got?

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