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How do you deal with them? My local shop has a very talented wolf player who routinely uses 3 full long fang squads w/ rockets. What is the best answer to this?
I am new to gaurd and my current models are 3 chimeras two vet squads a ccs and 3 vendettas. I am thinking about two Medusa's or somLRBTs next
If you want to directly kill them then the Colossus can be pretty good but I don't rate either the LRBT or Medusas due to scatter and cover saves.
I have several tools in my list that I use to deal with this kind of threat -
Scout sentinels - outflanking + an astropath is pretty powerful. If your opponent is in the corner of the board you can charge into his squad and there's very little he can do to kill 3x walkers. Even if they're deeper into the board you can still shoot them - wound saturation is a good strategy and every hit wounds on a 2+ from a multilaser.
Psyker battle squads - since they are so often perched on the edge of the table it's funny to weaken their resolve then hit them with multilasers, cause those 1-2 casualties that you need to force a morale check and have them drop off into oblivion.
Stormtroopers - similar to the scout sentinels, I run 2x squads of these. They outflank and try to come in near backfield units. I have 2x melta guns and 3x hot shot lasguns which ignore marine armour. They put big dents in such small squads. They probably won't kill them all but every kill reduces their firepower a lot.
You could also take Marbo - he can nuke a squad pretty well with his demo charge. Cover is still an issue but he can charge into them the next turn and has a reasonable chance against them with his sniper pistol and 2+ poisoned attacks.
Overall you want to shoot them as much as possible with your multilasers etc. Since every model counts you can reduce his firepower a great deal just by killing a couple of marines.
Your main problem is you're so focused on vendettas. They're really tall models which dominate the battlefield. You can go flat out for a cover save but then they can't shoot so they're useless. It's pretty much the case that he's got the counter to your build. I don't run gunships any more. They're a priority target and it's hard to use manoeuvring or tactics to do much about it which is boring.
I'd take Hydras for fire support instead. You can still get some good dakka from them but they're a fraction of the cost and almost as hard to kill. With the spare points you can take more Chimeras. Rather than trying to out-shoot the long fangs just have the redundancy to absorb some licks. 12 rockets really isn't that good against guard. It's 8 hits, maybe 3 pens and a glance. If you've got cover or launched smoke you cut that in half too. Basically he's lucky if he kills or immobilises a single transport per turn. Once you're up in the midfield your melta guns and other close ranged fire support kicks in and should whip the wolves into shape pretty quickly.
Last edited by Korona; May 5th, 2012 at 03:17.
Copy, Improve, Innovate
That's not talent, that's cheese!Originally Posted by thiazi
As for how to deal with them... Depends. Are we talking an all-comers list? In that case, two answers: marbo and al'rahem. Marbo alone kills half a squad with the demo charge and keeps the survivors busy for a turn. After that, it's al'rahem. Good luck finding sufficient cover for three full squads in the center of the board. Meanwhile, yout trio of russes (which, by the way, amongst themselves, should be killing a squad of longfangs per turn, and drawing their fire!) makes it impossible for him to station them in open terrain. Effectively, he's forced into the arms of your outflanking platoon (with an advisor, they usually come in on turn two on the flank of your choice!), which can innundate them with flamers, then charge with 25+ models. Then you have 3+ scoring units in his backfield. Between marbo, three pieplates, and al'rahem, you should be able to handle longfangs. And the good news is that all three elements are good choices in an all-comers list.
IG since 1999 __ DA since 2002 __ Tau since 2005 __ SoB since 2007
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Several good points. I am hoping to find a good first turn response which I think the hydras will work great for. Thanks
12 missiles isn't cheese
The wolves can pack in nearly 30 if they really want to (it's still not that great though).
Last edited by Korona; May 6th, 2012 at 14:41.
Copy, Improve, Innovate
Long fangs are cheap and deadly for a space puppy army which is why you see them more often than not kitted out with missle launchers and maybe a lascannon or two just for the heavier armour.
But yes, out flanking is a very useful tool for dealing with these wolven menaces. Just keep pumping shot after shot into them and force moral tests. Pinning weapons also help to force them down. Outflank, deep strike whatever just do what you have to do to get wounds on them and watch them fall. Once you cripple them, play the range game which is what imperial guard do best.
I have three armies and play a Space wolf player often, unless its AV14 my vehicles suffer badly if I don't keep his longfangs in check. They are my primary targets and if I neutralise them early I always win, apart from a few lascannon razorbacks the longfangs are generally his main source of anti-tank. If he sticks them in a building just shake the building every turn, if he's put them in cover just throw enough stones and watch them get buried.
I second Marnepup's advice. Russes of any type would be good choices, thanks to their near-immunity to krak missiles. I'll give a special mention for the Russ Executioner. Competitive Space Wolves almost always rely on Grey Hunters in Rhinos for their troops, usually augmented with wolf standards and living lightning priests, and the LRQ's main gun is effective against both the transports and the Marines.
If he constantly spreads out his Long Fangs then Russ Exterminators and Punishers would also make good choices. The PBS idea is good, too.
"My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard
The PBS comes into its own even better when you have outflankers to back it up. It makes it pretty easy to get within 6 inches of the squad and ensure they drop off the table. Not that I'd EVER do something like that, it's totally cheesy and wrong...
Copy, Improve, Innovate
Deep strike storm troopers with plasma guns or take a leman russ executioner followed by a bane wolf so they don't get cover saves or armor saves.