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Hey guys, I've been lurking here for some time, and have always enjoyed reading what you guys have to say.
As the title says, I'm a new player with only a few trial games under my belt. Luckily, 2 of my friends are also new to this game, while another is a veteran.
I chose Sisters, because I really dig their fluff, and models, but I am aware that our WD Codex is pretty underwhelming.
Anyway, I'm becoming pretty worried about my friends' armies.
Friend 1: Tau
Friend 2: Tyranids and Chaos Space Marines
Friend 3 (the veteran): Blood Angels
The Sisters stuff I have:
1 Celestine, the Living Saint
1 Ecclesiarchy Confessor (I use an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor model for it)
1 Sister Diagolus
1 Sister Hospitaler
10 Death Cult Assassin
50 Battle Sisters
4 Heavy Bolters
5 Storm Bolters
3 Penitent Engine (I know... but they look so cool)
1 Immolator (Yeah...)
I definitely plan on getting more rhinos and special weapons. For the theme, I'd like to keep the army Sisters only, which rules out our awesome HQ (Jacobus), but I hope we can be successful without him.
I did a lot of reading around here, and got a lot of great info, but I was just wondering what you guys think about my opposition? Have you guys played against any of them before? Am I in for a long season of getting lit up?
My worries in order would be:
1 Blood Angels (Stormraven!)
2 Tau (Killer Range!)
3 Chaos Space Marines
Sorry for the long post, and I really appreciate any advice, tips, or input.
1) Blood Angels - a lot of options, you could face anything on a given day from mech spam, horde troops, drop pod assault, 2++ spam, landraider spam, predator spam, etc, etc. They can be highly resistant to small arms, fast, highly effective at taking out exorcists early, they can field troops in immolators more cheaply and more effectively than sisters, and often sport 5+ saves on their vehicles.
Of course 'veteran' doesn't mean the guy is any good, and all those shiny but pricey options in the BA dex can help level the numbers, while spam BA doesn't have the same 'one mistake and you've lost your unit' close combat punch.
2) Tau - Pile in, meltas and exorcists at the ready and try to overwhelm with numbers - tau can be quite pricey and while a charging firewarrior squad with carbines can beat an equally priced unit of sisters in close combat (yes - you heard it right) you will rarely seen them used that way.
Tau can also be pretty brutal on new players, it takes a little work to get the best out of them. Come the new tau codex and you'll be screwed, but until then hammer the suits with S8 AP1 and give the guy fits with celestine (which they really have no answer to). Use rhinos to cover other rhinos and smoke up the dominions with their scout move - unsubtle works best here and make sure to enforce moral tests when shooting up shield drones.
If you are using forgeworld stuff keep an eye out for tetras - they are dangerous.
3) Chaos Marines - With 3rd edition divine guidance gone you'll have all kinds of trouble dealing with plague marines ... and generally speaking this will be a kind of mirror match against a less numerous but far more durable opponent with access to artillery and giant flying demons.
They will kick your ass without breaking a sweat in close combat (except for cultists, who will maul them) but generally run with the same 3 long range unit limitation and meltaguns and don't have much in the way of game-changing powers or special rules.
May take a while for a new CSM player to settle into a solid list (there are a fair number of less than optimal units in the dex) after which games will likely settle into a pattern of early shooting followed by mid-field chaos where, unfortunately, the nerfed sisters of the 5th ed dex will weigh you down.
No real strategy here, you just need to out play them on the day and get what bang for buck you can from early dominion hits, resurrecting celestine, etc. Don't have any plans on clearing objectives easily though - many CSM are fearless and a squad of 5 plague marines hunkering down in cover take an inordinate amount of small arms fire to clear. Also be aware that CSM have a few surprises of their own with deepstriking units (troops-choice daemons who DS without scatter and assault, and deepstriking plasma/flamer terminators... though the latter is somewhat overkill against a BSS squad).
4) Tyranids - They can out-shoot you, and out-fight you. They are faster, more numerous, and thanks to being another of Cruddaces abortions - you are still in with a reasonable shot against them. Stock up on combi-plasma and exorcists to deal with the MCs, watch out for hive guard, and remember that gaunts have little way to defend themselves against vehicles tank-shocking straight through the middle of them.
Be aware of outflanking stealers - shouldn't be a problem with units central and moving but always nudge your exorcists an inch or two at the start of each turn. Watch out for nid drop pods (they can still fight) and after that it's primarily a matter of picking your target priority and ensuring that you have a way of dealing with MCs in a timely fashion.
Stay mech, stay safe, and once again celestine can be a real pain in the ass.
Never forget that Celestine can be a pain in the ass. The last tournament I went to, I was tabled (bad early morning mistakes on my part) except for her and instead of losing horribly, she forced a tie thanks to the scenario. I really wish I was kidding, but it's the truth. She died 3 times and clutch rezzed at the end, cleared an objective and tied the game (king of the hill, anything with a WS could hold. primary objective worth twice as much as secondaries).
I would grab Heavy Flamers, melta guns, and Immolators next if I were you. Immolators are $2 more, make SoB rhinos, and come with tons of SoB decor. Immolators are also still good in the right circumstances. The best place to put them is with Dominions because a scouting TLMulti-Melta is really nice when a bunch of Twin Linked flamers hop out and start toasting things. Heavy Flamers are probably one of the best things your SoB squad can have despite it being horrendously overpriced. It puts pain into most infantry (depending on what and how much you hit) and can even hurt vehicles if you're lucky enough, though that's usually a transport and you're awfully close to it at that point. It's still better than nothing. With what you have, I would make something like this:
Hand Flamers x2
Battle Sister Squad
Melta Gun, Flamer
Battle Sister Squad
Melta Gun, Flamer
Heavy Bolter x4
This is a good 1000 points list using what you have that's pretty straight forward. It's similar to my tournament list, though I used heavy flamers and combi-weapons on my BS squads and no rets. Rets are really good because they're dirt cheap for what they do, but I couldn't have taken them in the tournament anyway because Fast/Heavy/Elites were limited to two options and Exorcists took precedence.
40k: Silver Angels of Our Martyred Lady 7/2/3 - Daemons of the Great Squiggle! 3/1/0
Fantasy: Windhost of Athel'Loren 2/0/0 - Daemons of Another Great Squiggle! 0/0/0
Warmahordes: Legion of Everblight (Absylonia)
Wow, thanks guys!
A.T. - Thanks for the army specific tips. The Blood Angels player is going to be troops light (5 Death Company, 1 Death Company Dread), with 2 Stormravens, and suicide Dreads in Drop Pods. Sanguinary Guard is also going to be a mainstay. So I'm not sure which archetype his list would count under. Mech-spam? The Tau player will just be spamming range, and doing everything in his power to keep me far away. Lots of Melta Piranhas, Ion Cannon Hammerheads, and Battlesuits. Speaking of which, good looking on the Shield Drone Leadership check. I never would have thought of that.
ikbuh - Between you, and A.T. I guess St. Celestine is pretty legit. I thought so too, just I was afraid maybe the first impression of her got me noobing out or something(Penitent Engines...).
I agree about the immolator though. I think the only occasion I would run it is if I had some Dom gals in it to light something up quick from the start. But even then, Hunter-Killer Rhinos are so much cheaper, . I do love all the extra bitz the kit comes with though. I always buy that kit for just my rhinos.
I guess my other question would be about Repentia Sisters, and Non-Jacobus Death-Cults. Is a Non-Jacobus Battle Conclave with Death-Cults a bad investment? The assassins look like they would really help shore up our assault-retarded army. Same deal with Repentia, but Rage seems really annoying.
Also, ikbuh, would you still use a Retributor Squad in the 3rd Heavy Support slot if I had a 3rd Exorcist? On that note, should I pick up a 3rd one?
Thanks again guys!
Oh yeah, about the Tau player. He seems to love the idea of trapping units with tons of Gun Drones. With their pinning and whatnot. Is this as disasterous as it sounds? Also, setting them up as a cover wall for important Battlesuits, ships, etc.
Last edited by Adepta Sororitas; June 1st, 2012 at 23:14.
Don't expect Celestine to mow anything down - she'll kill a couple of models a turn and die... a lot. But she's cheap and you opponent needs to deal with the fact that she might pop back again at any moment. Against that DC list with no scoring units she's got a 50/50 chance of wipeout loss into a draw in any given objectives game.
Gun drones are nothing special.
Repentia - not really worth looking at until you reach a high enough points level that you've used most of your slots and it's down to a choice between an elite unit or a 4th troops choice.
Non-jacobus cultists - You have to take a confessor to use them, for 15 points more it might as well be (counts as) Jacobus. The only redeeming feature of the vanilla confessor is the ability to take a plasmagun or overpriced eviscerator - he is otherwise inferior in all ways to his two named counterparts.
The battle conclave units were not build with the WD dex in mind and do miss out on a number of things from their GK origins - do be aware that the unit can burn up a fair amount of your points and then struggle to get into combat. They'll go through marines before you can blink though.