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We can only get them on dreads and LRCs but I think it needs to be mentioned, it's a hole new ball game for us GK players. About once a month someone tries to find out what GKs can do for anti-tank and it used to be the same old answers. I'm excited that the new SM codex has provided us a completely new strategy option since a new codex is not going to happen.
Benefits are spelled out on many forums, but needless to say it can pop AV14 just as easily as a LC. Disadvantage is it's only range 24". So how does this change the usual anti-tank answers?
The dreads are a serious consideration now. I wish they had "hard to kill" rules, but oh well. But if you hide them and sneek around in cover, you can surprise hard transports, hard troops, and big baddies, and short range tanks. You can't look at it as a long range tank killer becuase you'll never get the chance, but for enemy moving towards you, the AC will be a nasty sucker.
The LRC/LR debate is now open again. With the LRC you can transport your GKs into battle and have more anti-tank power than the LR. Challenge is getting there as always, so other high priority targets must be presented to draw fire. deep striking GKs, chims and the dreads that reveal themselves to pop off a crak missle.
All in all I think the revised AC rules change quite a bit for us. It's exciting, it's new and it means a new serious answer for anti-tank. But like everything for GKs, using it to it's maximum effectiveness is a challenge.
honestly, i think the assault cannon depends too much on luck. i've seen terminators take on an armoured company, they assault cannon the tanks no 6's for penetration for at least 3 turns. then they hose some guardsmen and they get 3 6's each. (i'm exaggerating a little)
i would honestly just take a landraider or a dreadnaught with lascannons. (okay, you can give it a missile launcher as well if you want.)
edit: and they get 3 6's each to hit against guardsmen, not for amour penetration against guardsmen ^_^
I think that the best way for GK to get anti-tank is inducted IG. Fluffwise and gamewise GK just don't use heavy weapons, it's the way they are. GK Dreads, while cool and all, just don't fit the fluff when they've got a TLLC/ML. Even the Assault Cannon isn't fluffy. Only two weapons seem fluffy on a GK Dread: psycannon and multimelta. And I don't know anyone who'd put a psycannon on a Dreadnought for anything other than show. As for the LR/LRC debate, I think that LRC's are infinitely more fitting for GK to use, but only at large values. I won't even look at taking one until I'm above 2000pts. LRC's, with assault cannon & multi-melta, and the whole "drive until you hit the enemy" mindset, really just make sense in this army. LR's, eh, lascannons aren't anti-daemon weapons. Leave those for the Guardsmen. And yes, maybe shooting a bloodthirster would be an easier and safer alternative, but in the 40K universe you'd probably be executed for heresy with that statement ^_^
The Assault Cannon is ridiculous!
My brother annihilates me with those things. I have IG and they easily take out my tanks. He has 4 AC (2 TL) which is just stupid. They dont even cost that much!!! Rules Review pls!
If all 3 hits (with TL BS 4 it's gonna happen) there's roughly 34% of penetrating and 8% of glancing on AV 14!!!!!!
*I feel sick*
"No single man should have the power to crush the lives of his people. It is our duty, being free from the cruel reign of the Emporer, to liberate the peoples of the Imperium from His iron grip! Let them choose their leader! Let them join the Confederation! Let us dethrone the false Emporer and unite under the banner of Freedom!" - Karl Lindbergh, President of the C.I.S., Speech on Justice VI
'The old lie; To die for your Emporer is a wonderful and glorious honour.'
Like has been said before, in many ways fluff and gameplay are very different and so I see no problem with using Assault Cannons on a GK Dread if you think its the best option.Originally posted by mEGALOMANIAC@Dec 15 2004, 11:41
I think that the best way for GK to get anti-tank is inducted IG. Fluffwise and gamewise GK just don't use heavy weapons, it's the way they are. GK Dreads, while cool and all, just don't fit the fluff when they've got a TLLC/ML. Even the Assault Cannon isn't fluffy. Only two weapons seem fluffy on a GK Dread: psycannon and multimelta. And I don't know anyone who'd put a psycannon on a Dreadnought for anything other than show. As for the LR/LRC debate, I think that LRC's are infinitely more fitting for GK to use, but only at large values. I won't even look at taking one until I'm above 2000pts. LRC's, with assault cannon & multi-melta, and the whole "drive until you hit the enemy" mindset, really just make sense in this army. LR's, eh, lascannons aren't anti-daemon weapons. Leave those for the Guardsmen. And yes, maybe shooting a bloodthirster would be an easier and safer alternative, but in the 40K universe you'd probably be executed for heresy with that statement ^_^[snapback]276524[/snapback]
“ Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man. ” - Thomas Paine
I haven't picked up the new rulebook/codex yet, but am I correct if I say the stats are the same and they get "rending" on 6's?
The way I'd use it is on a dread with Assault Cannon and CC wpn. Maybe an incinerator, though not necessary.
I'd then have a second dread with TLLC and ML, standing back and popping tanks.
The AC/CC Dread is cheaper then TLLC/ML, but equally a big threat if it comes close. Remember, a dread tears tanks appart in CC, and with an assaultcannon you can try 'n pop some on the way in, and AC is better then TLLC if you come close enough to shoot/charge infantry.
this way, people would be "forced" to deal with a dread running into it's lines (a dread locking upp a big squad marines, who can't even take him down with their low str, is a threat to be reconed, and all the while your expensive dread can do what it's supposed to, blow upp tanks.
I think a AC dread with incin and cc arm fit the GK tactical stye perfectly. It's like an overgrown GK that can rip tanks apart. Fluff-wise, I don't know. It's more fluffy than a LC/ML combo, but less than a psycannon. The holy weapon thing falls apart pretty quicky. I think the AC is like a spastic storm bolter so they should love everything about it. It's not a sit back and shoot gun.
The GK Dread that would be fluffy would be a dual CC arm, options for incins, or psycannon under each. Now that would rock. I think the Psycannon as a main weapon is weak and small looking. It could easily fit under the cc arm, allowing tons of WS5 attacks. Furiouso-style GK.
I originally put a TLLC and ML on my dreadnought , but after a few really frustrating games i decided that that setup looked incredibly lame. also, i think that the ccw is important for self defense on a dread when hes put into an army that tends to close with the enemy, leaving him behind to deal with whatever wandering beasts your opponent has out tank hunting.
the finest of the finest of vererable grey knight warriors probably wouldnt be content to sit back and snipe at the bloodthirster with his missle launcher. so i took a miniature flail head, and attatched it to the CCW arm instead of a claw, to form some kind of massive man sized basher.
Try a termie with a psycannon for attackin IG tanks.
Pop in behind them, 3 STR 6 shots vs AV10, Up to 6 shots if you give the char it too. Yeah, It will splode, like it has every time.
Where's your Baritone Saxophone?
i think the AC Dread is the cats meow.
seriously the thing is s.i.k. sick.
yeah you need a 6 to rend... but you get 4 shots! you have ~44% chance to get a rending hit. ~29.6% to pen AV14!!
even if a lascannon *automatically* hits, it sill onlly has a 1/6 chance to pen (~16.6%)
so an AC is almost twice as effective vs AV14. if that doesn't cause lil red flashing lights to go off in your head, i don't know what does
combine this with the fact that ACs are one of the best non ordnance infantry killing guns out there (if not thee best)...
simply put, ACs are back with a vengence.
just too bad GKs can't get venerable dreads.