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now that the new codex allows SM to chose their own traits and disadvantages (which arguably is not really that *disadvantageous* ) What, other than the honor of the SM players, is keeping people from choosing traits like they choose wargear and play a different "custom" chapter every game to powergame?
For example, if my SM is playing Nids, I would give it some extra CC type traits like Furious Charge, True Brit, Counter Attack, etc... and take disadvantages like no allies and no fast bikes. or give them more shooty traits (I can't come up with any on the top of my head right now)...
In the old days, at least if you play Dark Angels or Blood Angels, people know you can't change your traits/special skills, so they know what to expect, other than the weapons and vehicles you choose. But now, not only is the weapon/squad an unknown, even the special rules for your chapter is unknown until you play...
Any comments on this?
Well, WYSIWYG should stop most people. Many of the advantages require modeling/painting, 'Purity above all' requires a lot of apothecaries, 'Trust your battle-brothers' requires a lot of marines with CC weapons AND bolters (although you could play games without that advantage without problems) etc. If you have 25 bikes or 6 full squads of devastators you are likely to play with the traits that allows them.
Some of the advantages are NOT so obvious though, 'See, but don't be seen' is a good example, and those are open for abuse. You have my permission to slap offenders in the head :)
Personally I will not be varying my advantages much, maybe removing one I'm not using at the moment, but not changing them completely. You have to stay true to your fluff!
It seems to me that the whole "chapter traits" thing is an attempt on GW's part to promote fluff and to get people to really think about thier chapters instead of just slapping paint on a few marines and saying "OK here's my army" Just ask people a little about thier armies when you get a chance and you can find out a lot.That way if they try to change something all of a sudden you can call them out on it and make them look bad
If you try to change your army list to fight my nids, I just wont play you. Unless you were putting in those CC traits you mentioned, in which case I would laugh my head off at them as I ripped them to shreds.
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I like the traits system, but changing an army's traits from battle to battle is just not cricket.
I think in order to have a custom army with traits you should have a written page of fluff detailing the Chapter's history and background that justify the use of those particular traits.
People might be hesitant to change their traits on the fly if it meant re-writing the fluff.
Other than that. We can only rely on an honour system to prevent the abuse of traits. Most people, though, tend to play mostly within a closed circles. So I think that their mates will make sure they don't go switching traits because they'll remember the traits they used last time.
I can see how the trait system can be abused (and I have been on the receiving end of that already) but mostly I think it is not a problem. people will experiment for a while and then settle for one that works for them.
In addition - as Tubal mentioned before - the WYSIWYG will stop a lot of that abuse.
I myself have though about adding some traits to my chapter to show the experinece they gained from fighting against 'nids, but so far I found that the points cost involved are just too much. I would get an additional tactical squad for the points needed to give every model preferred enemy and true grit and countercharge. as I usually go for around 50 models in a 1500 points game...
Shut up and play.
I'd consider that cheating! You just can't change your whole chapter when playing different enemies.Originally posted by kryzak@Dec 15 2004, 17:28
...For example, if my SM is playing Nids, I would give it some extra CC type traits like Furious Charge, True Brit, Counter Attack, etc... and take disadvantages like no allies and no fast bikes. or give them more shooty traits (I can't come up with any on the top of my head right now)...[snapback]276964[/snapback]
When you create your chapter, you pick what traits you wan't and then go for them forever! I suppose you can't change that during tournaments either - so why do it home? :huh: Other than to try out different combinations though (to stay with).
exactly, I can imagine that if you are starting with it, you are experimenting a lot, but sooner or later you'll find something that you think really suits you.Originally posted by Rex@Dec 16 2004, 12:57
I'd consider that cheating! You just can't change your whole chapter when playing different enemies.
When you create your chapter, you pick what traits you wan't and then go for them forever! I suppose you can't change that during tournaments either - so why do it home? :huh: Other than to try out different combinations though (to stay with).[snapback]277419[/snapback]
I am starting Black Dragons, i KNOW i'll have to use EVERYTHING I have in the field to have a chance against some of the more buffed up or even cheesier armies.
But I don't care, I just want a fun army with character, that when you fight a new opponent, you can see him/her look at your assault squads and think "omgwtfarethose!?!?".
and i know that when I win, it will feel really good considering the handicaps cursed fundings have (which are perhaps, too harsh, aspire to glory is less harsh on the force chart)
Honestlly if you rely on knowing what your oponent will field to give you an edge you havnt understood the concept of war. The same should go for your oponent. The fact that you know what army they play should be more then enough. It is rediculous to think that we would always know the composition and strategy of an opossing force.
The traight system is very balanced and allows for alternate army lists. It is not a system to make an unbeatable SM army. I most often see posts about "is my army balanced" or" help me balance my army", you people do know that the point of balancing your army is so that when you dont know what you are facing you have the best chance possible?
If there are players out there that switch traights every game I say more power to them. I know I never gave any IG player a hassle over switching doctrines between games.
Point being, if you keep loosing to armies that are effectivelly different (ie: using different traights and hence different strategies and tactics) it suggests to me that the army you are using is sub par. I understand posts that say "Help!: I cant beat so and so", that makes sense, someone has done something that specifically exploits a weakness in your army and you want help fixing that weakness. What this suggests is that if someone uses a different army every time and this gives you a problem then there are LOTS of weakenesses in your army and THAT is the problem, not the traight switching.
Lastlly as to fluff, is it not inconceivable that a chapter would train its different companies with different skills? There is no reason a recon company of a chapter would use 6 Dreadnoughts for instance, hence why would they have that traight?
Sorry for the rant folks but this just seems as if people are looking for reasons as to why they loose other then the fact that they made a bad list.
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I think you should stick with your traits and not pick a disadvantage that doesn't effect you. If you change depending on the game then I would consider you a cheater as well. If your changing what you have in your army, then thats a different story. Thats why SM have different companies.
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