Reflections On The New Ig Book - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
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    Hey, I finally got my books, and my first box of Cadians, and I've been having a good old time reading and trimming plastics.

    Overall, I really like the new book. The new IG is much more flexible than the old one, and some of the rules that I thought were silly have been replaced or dropped. Now that tanks are more mobile, the whole IG army is now more mobile, so there are more choices than just building the best gunline.

    Reading the rules and messing with the AB program has really given me a lot of ideas, but one of the best pieces of strategic advice I ever got was from an Ork player, who said, "I really don't worry about Space Marine armies, because they usually can't kill enough Orcs to beat me." So with that in mind, I was able to recognize that one of the main strengths to the IG was the cheapness of its troops, and because of that, the units needed to stay cheap too.

    That's a tough one, though, for me and for a lot of other players I know. After all, one point per model for frag grenades doesn't sound like much, but then, when you figure that that's a 16% increase in the cost of the model, it makes you think twice about buying them. After all, there are only six turns in the game, and the enemy will have to wreck a lot of 60-70 point infantry squads in order to earn any significant amount of points.

    Another strategic lesson that I learned well in 3rd ed. was that the power of an army should be focussed in its troops. In the main, troops give the best bang for the point in the army, can generally be configured to do whatever you need, and can typically be counted on to be on the table instead of hanging back in reserves.

    So, with these two lessons in mind, I'm going to focus on building my infantry squads cheap, by giving them a single upgrade, and diverse, by making different squads that are good in different roles. For example, the first squad I am building right now includes a missile launcher and the sergeant is armed with a lasgun, as this squad is designed for fire support. I could have included a plasma rifle or grenade launcher as well, but then, the cost of the squad goes up by quite a bit, and it gives the enemy more points when they are slain. My next squad will be more assault/movement oriented, and it will have a grenade launcher in it and a sergeant with pistol/cc weapon. By diffusing my upgrades in this way, I give up some of the potential shooting-effectiveness of each squad, but I increase my model count, which gives me more lasguns (which while not great, are certainly adequate in mass numbers) and more wounds the enemy has to take off in order to get the same points.

    I intend to carry this through with the rest of my army, making sure that my vehicles and characters stay cheap and my elite units stay focussed and not just buy 10 Ogryns because it would look cool.

    I had planned to put my command squads in Chimeras, but looking at the special rules for Escalation, I'm not sure that that is such a good idea. Any thoughts?

    Some further short reflections:

    Command HQ: Love the addition of the special weapons support squad, but I'm unsure how long these guys will survive in the grim darkness of the far future. Besides, they kind of go against my desire to keep things cheap. Oh yeah, mortars are much better now.

    Sanctioned Psykers: Not what I would have liked to have seen, but rolling randomly for psychic powers is no more stupid than rolling randomly for magic spells in WFB (although I have always thought that that was pretty stupid, too, but there's obviously a theme going on here.) Still, for 12 points it's a body in a command squad which needs bodies, so I'll probably use these a lot.

    Comissars: It's great that they add to the officer's LD and that they can't be "fragged" anymore. These are a much better buy compared to last ed.

    Priests: Pretty silly. They're just as expensive as a Comissar, but not as useful and carry their own special penalties. It's little surprise that I haven't seen many of these in the army lists.

    Hardened Vets: Not so cool for the cost.

    Ogryns: Nicer since they dumped their clubs. I like that they come with frag grenades, as it would allow them to lead charges, then have the rest of the IG pile in behind them. Can't say I love the models, but the troops are good. Nice to see the return of the Bone 'eads.

    Storm Troops: Really, really good for their cost. I can see why the grenadier doctrine is so popular. Great new models, too.

    Ratlings: Hate the models & don't love the idea. It's nice that they don't run away so much now. Otherwise, a decent enough sniper unit, if they don't run off on some quest to Mount Doom.

    Techpriest: Just weird, as I have rarely seen an army entry that allows 1-2 of something; 1-3 seems to have been the standard, and I don't know why they broke that standard for these troops. This is a really, really expensive model given his standard-IG statline. His special ability is wierd as well, as I don't really remember losing too many games because some part of some tank didn't work. I love the model, but doubt that I will employ anything this expensive.

    Infantry Platoons: "Same as it ever was," although the remnants rule is not bad for using up extra models and rounding out points-limits.

    Conscripts: Another idea that I haven't gotten used to, as this "horde" approach is pretty unusual, even for the Guard. It also surprises me to see that although their BS is worse, their weapon upgrades are more expensive than those of a regular platoon. I really don't know if I'll bother to spend the money on models for troops like these.

    Armored Fist Squad: It seems to me that this is just a way to get another Chimera on the board, as transporting standard Guardsmen around isn't that exciting of a tactic, as it's not like the Guardsmen will be able to do much as a single squad when they get wherever they were going.

    Hellhound: So much better! Who wouldn't want some of these?

    Rough Riders: Nice and cheap. Good counter-attack force. I'd have to do some conversions, though, as the models don't strike me as that great.

    Sentinels: Nice and cheap with a good gun and good special rules. To me, these are the Guardsmen of vehicles. I doubt that I'd bother upgrading any of these, as they are very fragile. Better to keep them cheap so you don't lose so much when they die!

    Heavy Weapons Platoon. Looks nice, although I think I'd usually rather have a Russ, as by the time we get to heavy support, we should have all of the infantry-based heavy guns that we could ever want.

    Russ: Like the new rules on moving and shooting.

    Demolisher: Like the new rules for Melta-weapons

    Basilisk: Like the new guess rules, but I probably won't employ one as it doesn't fit my theme.

    Last Chancers: I find it funny that the most elite unit in the book is made up of criminals. These guys are awesome, and their special rules are sick, sick, sick. I find myself great and sorely tempted to use this unit, except that they are so damn expensive.

    Doctrines: Although some of them look nice, overall, I don't feel the need to use this part of the book, esp. as many of the doctrines increase the basic cost of the Guardsmen, which I don't want to do.

    Overall, I really love the new book, because all of the things that I use got better or more flexible, and the things that aren't very good I can work fine without. Happy happy!


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  3. #2
    Senior Member General Nuke Em's Avatar
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    Veterans are really good for their cost. 2 points over a standard guardsmen gives you 1 better BS, 1 better leadership, the ability to take 3 special weapons and a heavy weapon, and they can infiltrate. Of course, you need to work out how to use the toys without turning it into a 150 point target. 5 guys and a lascannon works pretty well, or 3 plasma guns and a plasma pistol on the sergeant, and so on.
    <a href='http://generalnukeem.hwcommunity.com' target='_blank'><img src='http://generalnukeem.hwcommunity.com/revalation346x173.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /></a>

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    I agree, veterans are awesome&#33; Although they drop like normal guardsmen, for only 2 points more you get a much better chance to hit stuff. If you want to ensure that the lascannon is gonna hit the enemy tank give it to the Veterans. Giving it to normal Infantry squads is just a waste IMO.

    Veteran Sergeant +Honorifica Imperialis + Power Fist is also great in close combat.

    Also, Hellhounds are good tanks and can easily get their points back against non-SM armies (if they survive the first few turns that is&#33
    &quot;No single man should have the power to crush the lives of his people. It is our duty, being free from the cruel reign of the Emporer, to liberate the peoples of the Imperium from His iron grip&#33; Let them choose their leader&#33; Let them join the Confederation&#33; Let us dethrone the false Emporer and unite under the banner of Freedom&#33;&quot; - Karl Lindbergh, President of the C.I.S., Speech on Justice VI
    &#39;The old lie; To die for your Emporer is a wonderful and glorious honour.&#39;

  5. #4
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    Well, the reason I was down on the Vet&#39;s is that they seem pretty expensive for what you get. BS is nice, but a Guard army usually uses numbers over accuracy. LD is nice, but there&#39;s plenty of ways to boost Guard LD, such as just standing close to an Officer. Infiltrate is good, but whole armies can be built to infiltrate. Chimera is good but those are not in short supply either. The ability to take extra special weapons is nice, but I&#39;m not even using all of the weapons slots for my regular infantry squads.

    As the general pointed out, when you get done with all of those options, you have a unit that costs as much as a full-strength Space Marine squad, which is something I&#39;d like to avoid if I can. Slot-wise, they just seem to be upgraded Guardsmen, whereas the other units in the Elite-slot, Ogryns, Stormtroopers, Ratlings, have a unique role in the IG army. Stormtroopers, especially, seem to come with a lot more special abilities than their points would suggest. Yes, I think that the small units suggested could work well, but I&#39;m not convinced that that size of a unit is worth an Elite slot.

    Anyhow, I think that Vet&#39;s would be fun to model, but it just seems like a lot of points for upgraded Guardsmen to me.

  6. #5
    Senior Member greymeister's Avatar
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    I agree with alot of what you say BaronDeSade. The strength of IG is in the # of men you can have on the board. It is not the number of AP3 weapons you take that counts, it&#39;s the number of saves you force your opponent to take. Massed fire will ignore even the strongest armor. I do have some notes you might look into though:

    Last Chancers: You&#39;ve gotta love them I use them in my current competitive IG list because the entire army drops in (more on this later). They&#39;re also a great yet expensive way to get infiltrating heavy weapons, since dropping them is a waste. That and Schaeffer is one tough SOB. I love the Last Chancer set of models, and even though now they aren&#39;t specific characters I still use them all.

    Ogryns: I&#39;ve put these in a list of mine but they never got to see action. I think the only way to effectively use them is with a Chimera, as their horrible save will get them shot to yellow water if you try to march them.

    Ratlings: These are pretty good if you can get them in cover behind other units of yours. Otherwise if you infiltrate them anywhere near your opponent, you&#39;ll only get to use them if a) you get first turn or b) you&#39;re extremely lucky or c) your opponent is an idiot. They really can take out huge monsters though, and shooting into squads with them generally results in your opponent taking 4-6 saves, which even marines usually fail 2 or 3. Very nice for the points cost as well.

    Veterans: I like taking a squad of these (at least it doesn&#39;t cost a doctrine like the rest of the elites) and giving them some plasma and maybe a flamer or 2. My veteran sergeant uses the Sly Marbo model and I give him the honorifica so that he has the same stats as Sly (sans 1 WS point, but if I REALLY wanted to have stats I could give the squad hardened fighters, but that&#39;s a waste of a doctrine point). These guys dropping in can really put a hurting on your opponent. I don&#39;t bother giving them a heavy weapon, that&#39;s for my HQ support squads and the Last Chancers.

    Sentinnels: I love these things, if only because I can drop them in for a free round of shooting. I&#39;ve always used the multilaser to try and wipe out a few troops but I&#39;m not sure if other things may be more effective.

    Suicide HQ Squads: This is something you may want to look into, especially if you&#39;re looking into the Last Chancers. Is that infantry platoon&#39;s command squad going to waste while you&#39;re getting leadership from your HSO? Give the JO a plasma pistol and give some meltaguns/flamers. Drop these guys in and say goodbye vehicle or squad. Speaking of which...

    Special Weapon Squads: This is worth using Doctrines to get a drop troop squad with a demolition charge. This and a few meltaguns can wipe out anything (the DC is AP 2, bye bye termies ).

    These are my views on the new IG.
    Karnov let all of us fulfil our repressed dreams of being a fat Russian man running around in the great outdoors and getting shot at by weird stone heads and crap. You didn't have a repressed fantasy about doing such marvelous things? Well, I don't believe you . . . [djpretzel]

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    I know this is contrary to the idea of iprial guard, but i take both sharpshooter and carapace. Rerolling your ones, takes imperial guard above 50/50 chance of hitting. The carapace increases the survivability of your units. YOu don&#39;t have as many models but they survive incredably well. When a heavy bolter or other heavy weapon is put in the squad they lay down plenty of fire power without the additional squad of units you could have bought with the points.

  8. #7
    Senior Member Bobby_Wokkerfella's Avatar
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    I know this is contrary to the idea of iprial guard, but i take both sharpshooter and carapace. Rerolling your ones, takes imperial guard above 50/50 chance of hitting. The carapace increases the survivability of your units. YOu don&#39;t have as many models but they survive incredably well. When a heavy bolter or other heavy weapon is put in the squad they lay down plenty of fire power without the additional squad of units you could have bought with the points.
    Nah, I&#39;d rather for 2 platoons with 2 HB than 1 with with HB, Carapace and sharpshooters. If not for the defence then for the offence. 2 squads with a HB each puts out 42 rapid fire shots whilst 1 squad would only do 21.

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    Heh, I can see that the great numbers of Space Marine armies are coloring a lot of general&#39;s thinking, what with the paranoia around bolter fire and the desire for as many plasma guns as possible.

    For me, it&#39;s pretty simple: Guard troops are throwaways, so spending more points on them is just throwing away more points. I won&#39;t cry if a burst of bolter fire decimates one of my squads, but leaves one or two still alive. I will just say, "Congrats there Mr. Space Marine. You just earned a whopping 35 VP&#39;s. If you can do that for five turns out of the six turn game, you might make back the points of your squad. Now watch as I vaporize your entire Assault Squad with one shot from my Demolisher."

    I think it&#39;s important to recognize, too, that IG are the second-worst army in the game when it comes to Close Combat, and that Carapace Armor isn&#39;t going to do a heck of a lot when the Guard are getting beat on, except to make your army smaller and easier to beat on.

    I think that in an army like Space Marines, where your troops are strong and tough to start with, it&#39;s good to spend points to make them meaner and tougher, as the SM are always going to be tough to kill, and therefore, a decently-safe investment of points. IG troops, on the other hand, are pretty weak, so spending points to make them slightly less weak seems like a bad investment to me. My other 40K army is Blood Angels, so I have been on both ends of this discussion.

    Of course, this is just my strategy, and if Carapace Armor is working for you, then by all means, roll with it, because, as they say, nothing succeeds like excess.

    For me, though, to paraphrase an Israeli tank commander, I plan to lose a lot of Guardsmen but win a lot of wars&#33;

  10. #9
    Senior Member greymeister's Avatar
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    I find it rather funny that even though it&#39;s the army that I lose the most troops with (droves and droves end up on the sides of the table by the 4th turn) they are also the ones I have the hardest time parting with. I don&#39;t seem to care much when I lose some grey knights or eldar harlequins. But when I see those little guys go down I feel upset for some reason :hmm: I think it&#39;s ironic, considering more of the IG guys die, I think we all have to admit that when it comes right down to it, those poor humans are the ones we can relate to the most. However, just remember, theirs is not to question why, theirs is but to do and die. Semper Fi soldiers, Semper Fi (Y)
    Karnov let all of us fulfil our repressed dreams of being a fat Russian man running around in the great outdoors and getting shot at by weird stone heads and crap. You didn't have a repressed fantasy about doing such marvelous things? Well, I don't believe you . . . [djpretzel]

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