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Last game I tried to deepstrike my GKT + GM but found out that there was nowhere on the table that was good enough considering:
1: Avoiding impossible terrain and table edge.
2: Avoiding to close to enemy (and friendly) troops
3: To far away from any target at all.
Sadly my one teleport homer died to early (will have one more next game).
How "risky" does people deepstrike their expensive GKT?
or do people spend a fortune on Charackters w. Teleport homers and Imp. Coms (making the teleport squads very small..)
I am not terribly convinced that Deep Striking is such an attractive option for GKTs. Although the 4th Ed rules have removed the snake-eyes lost in the warp thing, and if you have a teleport homer then its probably quite useful.
The deciding factor in my mind is that Deep Striking units may not assault on the turn they arrive. And Grey Knight Terminators are best at assaulting, although their firepower isn't bad, they have an expensive model cost, and are rather too vulnerable to plasma cannon for me to sleep easily at night (especially since you have to deploy them in that cute circle formation when they arrive).
Have you considered using a deep striking Grey Knight Power Armour unit. You would get more of them, and the firepower you could bring to bear would be more useful. But still, if the enemy can land an ordnance template on top of the unit they will all be wiped out.
Pick a good target (preferrably something nice and vulnerable to stormbolters), ensure that no ordnance or plasma cannon badness can trace line of sight to it. Deep Strike close to a teleport homer (You've probably though of this, but consider using IST in a Chimera is a good option - roll for reinforcements, and when they become availlable, rush the IST 12" across the table, deploy with 2" of the Chimera and Deep Strike within 6" of the IST veteran). The extra firepower from the Chimera and the IST will probably also be useful against whatever you want to attack. You could also use them as something of a meat-shield against assaults or low LD armies.
My secret, shameful desire is a three Ordo army...
(I know I'm bad...)
Thanks for your opinion, currently Im deciding between:
- Lots of GK and GKT and march them on foot Stormbolters blazing hoping that good placement and Shrouding will keep enough of them alive- ie noone deepstrikes.
- Lots of vehicles and atleast 2 teleporthomers and Imp. Comm... noone walks everyone got a ride or teleports (ev. exept IG support).
Currently I lean towards alternative 2, but if I find out that the troops arriving is too few (since alot of points is gone to transports etc.) to handle the enemy - then I have to revaluate.
Deepstriking is risky, sure, but what are the alternatives?
-Invest 250+ points in a LR/LRC to drive them? Ever heard of putting all your eggs in one basket? If the enemy pops the LR/LRC, you potentially lose another 300+ points of Terminators! Plus, a vehicle as expensive as the LR/LRC that can be killed with one shot? No thanks! Only would take this option in games over 2500 points, where there'd be plenty of big threats to take the focus away. And if that transport is popped? You've got to...
-March them across the table? No! How many players look at the oncoming GM and think "oh, thats no threat!"? Not a single one. If you march him - and believe me, I've tried this - he WILL be the target of every heavy weapon the enemy has, even anti-tank weaponry. They know that this is the single most dangerous model we can field, and will act accordingly. And T4 & a 2+/5+ save isn't much when you're hit with multiple lascannon shots, if you ask me. You're going to lose some if not all of the bodyguard, and even if the GM survives, he'll be infinitely less effective in CC without a full-strength bodyguard!
Deepstriking, you only really have to worry about placement and ONE turn of enemy templates. In 3rd, you could move after deepstriking (IIRC), which made it safer, but was balanced by the snake eyes rule. Now, you can't move OR assault, which does make them vulnerable in their circle - but I'd prefer one turn of that to marching across the table! Plus, the GM/BC isn't targetable with ranged weaponry, since he's got a bodyguard. So unless you take insane amounts of fire (in which case, you should be more picky about landing zones), you won't even have to put a wound on him. Maybe lose a few of the bodyguard, but again, less than if you marched. Besides, that's what they're there for anyways.
I honestly think the absolute best use of GK is with the Guard. My 2k Mechanized list is a good example, I think - two Armored Fist units, two IST/Rhino units, and a whole slew of Deepstriking GK. Only two teleport homers, but I could easily fit two more in (one per transport). Also, two Improved Comms. My GK seldom come down alone, and seldom come down off target. The new rules on TP Homers are awesome - instead of centering the template on the model with the homer (which isn't possible with the 4th Deepstriking rules), you can bring down the first model anywhere within 6" of the model with the homer. Great for luring the enemy with a defenseless IST unit, then dropping a GK squad between the enemy and the IST.No! Shrouding is near useless under 24", and not anything to count on under 36". I wouldn't depend on Shrouding for anything other than a purgation squad staying back at full range.hoping that... Shrouding will keep enough of them alive
Some good rules for deepstriking these guys:
-Never put them within charge distance of the enemy (including movement, so over 12" generally). They don't have True Grit like PAGK do, so don't get charged! Keep in mind that some units can fleet of foot, jetpack, or have other special movement rules - know your enemy and stay out of their range for the next turn! You want them within 12" AFTER their turn so you can move/assault yourself.
-Never deepstrike next to cover. Yea, it's nice to try and land right behind a wall or something, but seriously, a scatter of like 3" or 4" could land you ON or IN FRONT of the terrain, which is a bad thing in the worst way. Count the table edge as terrain for this concept as well. Stay at LEAST 6" away from all terrain/edges when placing your guys - high scatters aren't that common, but if you roll a scatter, chances are you'll get more than 2" or 3" on it. There's some inherent risk in Deepstriking, but don't increase it more than necessary!
-Never Deepstrike upsupported. A unit of ANYTHING that Deepstrikes alone will die, even GKT. Since it's a bitch to get multiple units coming down on the same turn, use Teleport Homers and Improved Comms whenever possible to coordinate attacks. If you have to bring a unit down away from the battle just to prevent it getting cut off, that isn't a bad thing.
-Remember, the enemy has NO idea where your guys'll land, which is really one of the biggest advantages of Deepstriking. Even if they all end up landing in safe ground, the enemy'll still be thrown off. Hell, you can even deploy GK in a Fast Attack slot as normal, skipping teleportation altogether. Versatility for you, unsurity for your foe!
--- Not that it matters much, but Your recall wrong... You couldn't move after DS even in 3rdEd.Originally posted by mEGALOMANIAC@Jan 7 2005, 20:43
In 3rd, you could move after deepstriking (IIRC),--- Do note that difficult terrain has no effect on Deep Striking units, unless the unit has special rules in regards to terrain (ie. Jumppacks, Winged, etc). Terminators don't have special rules and thus aren't affected by DSing into difficult terrain.-Never deepstrike next to cover. Yea, it's nice to try and land right behind a wall or something, but seriously, a scatter of like 3" or 4" could land you ON or IN FRONT of the terrain, which is a bad thing in the worst way.Stay at LEAST 6" away from all terrain/edges when placing your guys - high scatters aren't that common, but if you roll a scatter, chances are you'll get more than 2" or 3" on it. There's some inherent risk in Deepstriking, but don't increase it more than necessary!
Thus if the terrain allows a better Cover save than the Termie Inv, it might pay to DS into terrain. Also, it would make them safer against assaulting, probably getting the first strike.
Of course, You'd still be risking a potential scatter right into the enemy field of fire... ^_^;;;
"The meat things seek to destroy ourselves. They hunt us as we hunt them but they are weak and uncertain. The inferior flesh will be entirely destroyed, all biomatter consumed. Ourselves will fight to the last, all weak flesh must be devoured."
Depends on the terrain in use, really.
We use lots of small bits of impassable terrain to just create random LoS & movement breaks. Deepstriking onto or near that can potentially lose you some or all of the incoming unit.
Also, the behind terrain bit, I was picturing small terrain, like walls and such, not area terrain. More than once I've tried to land right behind a wall and scattered right onto the opposite side, right in front of the enemy's guns. Never fun, but good for a laugh if you're a good sportsman ^_^
How often does your GKT squad die due to bad shatter?Stay at LEAST 6" away from all terrain/edges when placing your guys
Never, since I use the 6" idea as a rule of thumb ^_^ Plus, the use of Teleport Homers makes it effectively impossible to scatter a squad off the table.
is it bad to have deepstriking units, and not have a teleport homer as well? Or do you have to have a Tp homer to have deepstriking units? (not too familiar with deepstriking)
[40k] - Dark Eldar
You don't have to have the homer to have DS units. The homer allows the DS units to deep strike in a radius of the model holding the homer, without the scatter of a normal DS coming into effect.Originally posted by DranZeR@Jan 10 2005, 211
is it bad to have deepstriking units, and not have a teleport homer as well? Or do you have to have a Tp homer to have deepstriking units? (not too familiar with deepstriking)[snapback]299198[/snapback]