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So I was playing another game the other day and the subject of cheese came up (my opponent was SW, and a GW person who played DE). Now the SW player said that anyone who fields more Elite, FA, and heavy support then there troops is fielding a list taking advantage of the list. He also said it didn't matter how many pts they were (bs). To which I replied, if my troop choices could have 4 power fists in each squad (with vet sgt) I would probily take more troops. Oh and apparently taking a vet sgt in every squad but giving him no extra equipment is cheesy (so I can get free pf, which is my only way of getting 2+ in a squad). Also taking single land speeders as a choice (bs).
Now im one to usually be pretty cool headed about stuff like this but this was a pretty indirect shot at my army list which although he didn't come out and say it, he pretty much named everything I had. I just get pretty pissed when somebody calls my list cheese when im running around with 3 man dev squads (loosing the vet sgt and a ml) and my important firing units (sniper scouts w/ml and dev squad) happen to be the only ones that rage during a battle. I mean its not my fault SW can't get a heavy weapon in each squad or that long fangs are expensive. The GW person kinda turned away from what the SW player was saying but he still said alot of things that sounded awfully close to what I do.
Now my argument for BA, was that its unreasonable to restrict us to more troops choices as we pay a premium for transports. Thus we have more jetpack troops. Also we obviously ant to maximize the effectiveness of the DC so were gonna have vet sgts in almost all our squads. Also im going to field heavy weapon stuf that can move (black rage) and still fire like LST and dreadnought.
So I ended up beating the SW player by 300+ pts, but the argument is just stuck in my head. I don't think anything is cheesy to be honest (although sisters are kinda beardy lol) and I think its just an excuse to why you lost to a superior force. I've had some pretty bad defeats (including getting wiped out on turn3) and some good victories and I just don't see how my army is cheesy.
So...what are your thoughts on cheese?
There is no such thing as cheese.
Just people who cant deal with the fact that they suck.
This game is over 20 years old, it used to be horriblly unbalanced. Now, things are all pretty even. Hence, instead of calling people cheese, just come to terms with the fact that your list doesnt work, has a weakness or you suck.
Plain and simple.
EDIT: A perfect example
My friend Plays a basilisk in some of our larger games and blocks it off with 3 chimeras and a table edge. What this means is that untill I get within 36" he will use it to fire on me and there is nothing I could do. Some people call this cheese, I call it a winning tactic. I overcame it of course, as all things can be overcome in this game. A simple 5 man squad with a power fist in a drop pod and by by went the basilisk. After doing this 4 times, my friend no longer uses the "invincible 'lisk" tactic.
Mentor of Space Marine Commanders far and wide.
Efficiency VS Point Cost VS Ease Of Use - Your best bets:
1) Chaplain led Assault squad - 2 plasma pistols, powerfisted sergeant
2) 8 man Devastator squad - 4 missile launchers
3) Land Speeder Tornado - HB + AC
Originally posted by 311+Jan 17 2005, 15:34--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(311 @ Jan 17 2005, 15:34)</div><div class='quotemain'>Now the SW player said that anyone who fields more Elite, FA, and heavy support then there troops is fielding a list taking advantage of the list.
That is a load of rubbish and he's talking out of his rear end. It's your list, you play it how you want. He has the same options.Again, talking from the wrong cheeks. Vets give you that extra attack and leadership. No cheese there, it's sensible to take this practice.Originally posted by 311@Jan 17 2005, 15:34
Oh and apparently taking a vet sgt in every squad but giving him no extra equipment is cheesy
Is this guy for real? Next he'll be saying "Taking only 5 tacticals is cheesy". Single Land Speeders are very often fielded by many players, use up that last 50 or so points on something worthwhile.Originally posted by 311@Jan 17 2005, 15:34
Also taking single land speeders as a choice
<!--QuoteBegin-311@Jan 17 2005, 15:34
I've had some pretty bad defeats (including getting wiped out on turn3) and some good victories and I just don't see how my army is cheesy.
As we all have. Only advice I can offer now is Don't Play Him Again
He's obviously a mind-games player and is using your list as an excuse for his own shortfallings as a tactician. Picking at your list makes you feel nagative and makes him feel he's planted a seed of doubt in your mind. The primary reason for this is to take away your feeling of 'A victory well earned'.
Win lose or draw, this player would have found excuses.
Absolutely.Originally posted by Chaosbrynn@Jan 17 2005, 15:55
There is no such thing as cheese.
Actually I know one of them said taking min size tac squads was cheesy, because "its against what tac squads are suppose to be" which I know is garbage because they send out patrol squads in sections of 5.
1. Saying there is no such thing as cheese is probably a little unfair.
2. The stuff you are describing are generally just good tactics for BA
3. BA lends itself to being unbalanced, sure you can play it with a balanced codex list but you are not taking advntage of the BA special rules.
4. Sounds like the SW player is a sore loser, next time play him at 751 point and say that taking 2HQs is cheesey, that should infuriate him
Everything you have been told is a lie!
Brilliant!!! Quite Brilliant!!Originally posted by Cheredanine@Jan 17 2005, 16:35
next time play him at 751 point and say that taking 2HQs is cheesey, that should infuriate him