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I was studying my army list and was wondering whether to replace a 6 woman serphim squad (with two hand flamers and vet superior) with two penitant engines. What are the pro's and con's. Also do you think i should get rid of a psi-tracker, psocculm (from and inquisitor),Auspex and carapce armour (from a presit) to give my Cannoness a jump pack and melta bombs? Please tell
Lord Yoss :shifty:
P.S Do you think this is a good 500 point army:
- cannones with blessed weapon, plasma pistol and book of st lucuis
- 2x 10 x sisters 2 with flamers, 2 with heavy flamers
Im not sure about the penitent engines, they are awesome models and im tempted to buy one, but they are serious bullet magnets and often dont get across the table. Seraphim I have found are always useful, in fact they hold a special place in my heart because not only do they look fantastic but they can sometimes do a lot more damage to an enemies plans than they really should be able to. Also most enemies underestimate them (they see a small squad of assault troops and dismiss them because they are so few). Personally what id do is swap out the flamers in that squad for inferno pistols - this will turn them into just about the most versatile tank hunters in the game.
As to your list, personally I dont think squads of 10 battle sisters are a good idea - remember they are toughness 3 and need to get within 12" to be truly effective (for those divine guidance rolls). In fact with flamers in the squad you can halve that distance and lets face it without transports thats going to be hard. Personally for footslogging squads I would drop the flamers and put those points into getting the squad up to a minimum size of 12. 14 or 15 is the best size IMO. Otherwise looks good.
nothing wrong with squads of 10 battle sisters. Actualy they are preferable against ranged enemies, who will have to split their fire between more squads.
I have also had a battle once where a squad of 20 battle sisters got in assault with a single marine. I failed one armor save, he failed none (he got the charge and artillery forced me to spread out my entire army so I only had a couple models close enough to counterattack). I failed the leadership check. He sweaping advanced me. I rolled a 1, he could have sweeping advanced that if he rolled a 1! 20 battle sisters wiped out by a single marine! If the squad was organized differently that would have only been 10! the very next turn I shot him to bits with the squad of girls who were only another 8" away!
About Saraphim vs Penitent engines:
Imagine you are a space marine player. You have a prediter annihilator, a Venerable dreadnaught with Assault Cannon, and a Vindicator. You then look accross the table to check out your aponents army and see 30 infantry surrounding 2 HUGE ROBOTS BUILT OUT OF GLASS!!!!
Don't put in penitent engines, and I say that only because they would be the only tanks in your army. Your aponent almost always expects you to have 4 heavily armored tanks in your army no matter what you play.
as a personal stance... i would drop the battle sisters for 2 or three 5 man Storm trooper teams. anf forget the engines... i have 2... and dont use them... mabye when i pick up a fourth, the problem is that sisters with a 3 strength are just NOT an assult army. they Rule the rapid fire ranges wit hthe flamers but lack that 4 strength to gotto blows, soooooooooo if you sister squad mob people remeber your Divine Guidance! and take the saraphim to add an extra act of faith since the Engines will only get in the way and stop your shots with close combat
i tend to run the 1500pts army with 2 or 3 depending on the apponent. and a Seraphim squad the HQ in an Immolator with HBs and blessed ammo and a retributor squad with 4 HB in an Immolator with HBsand blessed ammo (i play against ALOT of assault armys) supported by 2 Exorcists
it USUALLY works pretty well
when i comes to the shooty armies though like Tau... if you DONT feel like grabbing some Grey knights bring your Seraphim and 3 exorcist's HBs aren't the best thing agains those nasties...
The biggest word of advice for WH players that i can think of is definatly, EXORCIST
(side note my experience against the space marines is limited to Bloodangels... who are well... assault, but its works like hell on those dirty tau)
When all else fails, burn every one... or missile them back the Golden throne
Evil Beware, we have waffles!
[quote=Shiver,Feb 7 2005, 19:12]
Don't put in penitent engines, and I say that only because they would be the only tanks in your army.
In my 1500 point army so i have an exorcist so they wouldn't be they only tanks in my army.
well, if you have an exorcist I would half way consider taking the penitent engines. If you had a second exorcist, or a Lamun or something then definately.
One thing to consider about PEs. They are affected by Holy Rage. Holy Rage forces them to move towards and assault the closest enemy. Although you get an extra d6" for movement... you become very limited in where you go and what you can attack for the entire game. A smart opponent will throw things like fast vehicles (where you need a 6 to hit) as the closest thing or lead your PEs away from the battle with jump troops, etc.
Wow! I didn't expect so much feed back! Thanks guys you've been tons of help. You still should post your opinions: the more the merrier - might help someone else at a later date.
So far my penintent engines only get shot up. The advantage is they don't shoot the big guns at other stuff for a round or two. I kinda look at it like an 80 point magnet for big stuff.