Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
Okay, here it is: A space marine chapter that revolves around flexible tactical squads with dreadnought support. I'm thinking Heed the Wisdom of the Ancients and Take the fight to them. Thats it.
Here's why I think it would be a good idear: A 10 man Space Marine tactical squad is a major force on the table top. True, the 4 toughness and 3+ save are pretty easy to get around if you shoot the right guns at them, but how many armies have said guns in large numbers? There isn't much that the good old TS can't do- and that flexibility is enhanced by the ability to gear them up with chainswords and pistols. Think about it, unless the squad stands still for a turn (something I cannot understand) a BP and a Bolter are the EXACT SAME THING. And you get 10 additional S4 attacks in CC. Nuf' Said.
The one thing keeping me from using ALL TS's is that they have no reliable and cost effective way of dealing with heavy armor tanks and monstrous creatures. That's where the Dreadnought comes in. In all my reading in forums and help sites, no single model has been denounced more violently and held up so gloriously as the SM Dreadnought. Sure, you might as well paint a big old red target on them, and I haven't once seen one survive the first turn. But that's the only problem with the Dreadnought right there: The number one. EVERY SINGLE TIME I see a Dready on the table, he is the only one of his kind. And then the owner curses him as a point sink when he gets blown to smids. What if you DIDN'T just use one? What if you made a real point commitment and used three? Four? Dare I whisper... five in large games?
POINT SINK!! :realmad: Screams the Player! But is it really? Lets remember just how expensive it is: you can field a force of three Dreadies for less than the cost of 2 souped up TS's, and if the two had to meet in CC, I know whose side I'd be on! Think of just how cost effective that is! 2 strenth 10 attacks with an Initiative of 4! Not to mention armor that you'd need a strength of 6 just to glance. And to all you power fisters, remember: The Strength 10 attack is at I:4, not one. You'll be dead before you can raise your clumsy fist.
But how about it's ranged ability that's not to great :glare: ... right? :hmm: Well, you tell me: 4 shots with rending, meaning that there's a two thirds chance one shot will ignore armor saves/get two dice for armour penetration. All that at strength (I think) of 6, so there's no saves for you Imperial Guard Boyz anyway . That's Pretty Darn Good Folks! And I didn't even talk about Heavy Flamer! (The one upgrade I would make to all of my Dreadies)
I think an army that revolved around these two components would be awsome, but alot of you probably don't. Since I am very new to this game, most of what I said was speculation... please feel free to critique me all you like before I spend the money on the Dreads...
(My First Topic is Complete... Whooo Hooo! :rofl: )
I'm not sure about Space Marines, but I think you can only have 3 Heavy Support choices, therefore only 3 Dreadnoughts.
You might have a hard time against a fast moving army who would smoke you by constantly circling your Dreadnoughts and destroying them with Melta guns.
Besides, do you really want all those Dreadnoughts? One looks cool, no doubt, but variety makes the overall look of an army much better. A squadron of Landspeeders, two or three Attack Bikes, some Terminators, etc, makes the entire army more believable and unique.
With the traits he chose you could have up to 6 dreads, (3 normal, 3 venerable)
Also, a bolter and a bolt pistol are not the same thing. The pistol has a shorter range, meaning you can't rely on shooting from range. Also, if you rapid fire the pistol you cannot assault with your Chainswords.
The joy of Space Marines is that their bog standard tacticals are flexable, but by solely using them you would be shot to death from the heavy weapons of a range army, and outskilled in close combat by a melee force.
Finally, as this is specifically related to Space Marines its been moved to the correct forum.
Your logic is a little bit off. You would have been right in 3rd edition, however in 4th edition, rapid fire weapons such as the bolter get to fire twice at 12" even when the model carrying them is moving. So you actually get 2 shots with the bolter on the move and 1 shot with the pistol. At ranges of any more than 6" the bolter is far superior.Originally posted by Ordo Felonis@Feb 7 2005, 14:55
Think about it, unless the squad stands still for a turn (something I cannot understand) a BP and a Bolter are the EXACT SAME THING.[snapback]323147[/snapback]
The enemies of the Emperor fear many things. They fear discovery, defeat, despair and death. Yet there is one thing they fear above all others. They fear the wrath of the Space Marines!
Why not use 2 tac squads and the trait trust your battle brother. That would give you the best of the bolter and CC weap combos then add in the Dread for anti tank work (I think I've mentioned I like the Combined arms approach once or twice). But all in all I think is a viable idea. Go for it.
breath, sight, squeeze.
now double tap just for grins
and Another One bite's the dust.
A bolter round for all that oppose the Emperor.
Sorry Ordo, but since Dreads are not IC's, they can not single out models to kill. You'll still be eating PF, unless you're facing an HQ choice, which probably has an invuln against you anyhoo.
Don't bother having anything more than meaningless small talk on this forum, the moderators won't allow it
No one, except poorly written TMCS, can single out models. That is an old 3rd edition rule and was outdated even in the early days of TAR
On topic tho, you never know how an army will do until you play it. The success of an army depends on the commander, the opponent, terrain and the army composistion. If you're a horrible commander you'll lose even with the "best army", and good commanders can do decent, maybe not win, with a radically ineffective army
When in doubt, proxy
Oh, I guess your right about slow speed and not being able to taget the power fisters... And I just read my rule book again about rapid fire weapons... Hmmm... I should probably re-think my strategy a little.
when I was reading this topic I realised that 2 dreads would do some serious damage and don't be shot down so quike. I'm willing to try it once, but I doubt it that they will hold it against IG or tau. maybe 2 deep striking dreads with drop pod would do better.
DonÂ´t mess with the dicegod
You are correct in that two dreads are harder to kill than one. 6 dreads are horrible to try to kill. Add in four or so speeders and you have a prety good core force.
The major problem with the army you suggested is the lack of mobility. Everybody moves 6. Add some speeders and give the tactical squads true grit and your golden.