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Thread: Storm Bolters

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    I had a "squad bash" with my GK's recently, (we take a sqaud of equad points and see who's left standing,) and the GK's came out on top. The thing that made them stand out was their ability to move and shoot at 24'. It was 20 shots of anti-inf goodness. The only thing that made it into combat was a Nurgle squad, (damn toughness 5,) who were then cut to pieces at St6.

    So in short, is Storm Bolters the key to anti-inf?


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    Son of LO mEGALOMANIAC's Avatar
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    You'd think so, but for the cost of a single GK, you aren't getting quite enough firepower to be a perfect anti-swarm army. Honestly, the best way to take down GK is to swarm them with a ton of cheap units. Sure, they can make 20 shots in a turn, but you know how many 'gaunts or Guardsmen you can buy for the same price?

    That said, stormbolters DO rock. Just don't think that stormbolters are all you need to take out infantry. That's where psycannons and incinerators come in ^^

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    Originally posted by mEGALOMANIAC@Feb 11 2005, 14:55
    You'd think so, but for the cost of a single GK, you aren't getting quite enough firepower to be a perfect anti-swarm army. Honestly, the best way to take down GK is to swarm them with a ton of cheap units. Sure, they can make 20 shots in a turn, but you know how many 'gaunts or Guardsmen you can buy for the same price?

    That said, stormbolters DO rock. Just don't think that stormbolters are all you need to take out infantry. That's where psycannons and incinerators come in ^^
    [snapback]326152[/snapback]
    While GK have very good quality of fire, they often just don't produce enough of it. If I were going to have a squad sitting in a bunker shooting at an incoming horde, I know I'd prefer to take standard marines to the same points value. Why? Because you can get more than 3 Marines to every 2 GK. And while the Marines may be a little bit worse in that 12" to 24" zone, they hurt a lot more when the opposing unit is at less than 12" away (which most non-leaping units do at some point or another). Throw in that Marines can have a greater variety of heavy weapons, and I'd definitely choose them as the better infantry-shooting unit.

    ( When 4th Ed. rules came in our Marines player complained that he could no longer shoot once and assault, and that the new rules were stupid. I nearly slapped the fool. I consider it a pretty fair trade considering that they're now able to move and still Rapid Fire BOLTERS. Most Marines players think a Bolter is average. A Splinter rifle or lasgun is average, Bolters are top notch).

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    Lasgun Cell Cook BoxANT's Avatar
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    10 PAGK will run you 275 (including manditory vet sgt).

    for that amount of points i can get ~45 guardsmen
    or 50 conscripts and a tooled up IC commissar.

    you'd be surprised what 50 Ld10(reroll) conscripts will do to ten GKs...

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    Senior Member Terzo's Avatar
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    Well, ignoring the commissar (I dunno what exactly you'd give him), and assuming none of the conscripts have been upgrades to ml's or flamers.....
    You'd kill about 2 Grey Knights with 50 rapid firing conscripts. Out of 10. In close combat, it's even better for the knights-I really doubt all 50 conscripts can get close enough for the melee, so there would be less attacks.

    I think, it's not so much as what 50 conscripts do to a squad of Grey Knights, as what 50 conscripts prevent a squad of Grey Knights from doing-cause once those conscripts get into assault, the Knights are locked down for the rest of the game.

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    Hold on there. Lets just assume that every GK attack kills someone. 21 Guardsmen dead, though improbable. Assume one GK dies. Logical considering a remaning 29 guardsmen. GK outnumbered three to one when the guardsmen don't run. 3 wounds. Next round, 15 guard die. 14 Guardsmen and a Commisar with average luck will kill 1 Gk. GK outnumbered 3 to 1, 3 wounds. Remaning 5 Guarsmen. 10 Guard kill 1 GK. Justicar outnumbered 10 to 1 and takes ten wounds.

    Perhaps I am reading something wrong, But this is the idea. Secondly, most attacks will not kill anyone, and each guardsman is much more likely to kill someone than shown. If the guard was in close order drill, they would have 4 init, and the strikes would be simultaneous.

    DO NOT DIRECT ATTACK SWARM ARMIES!

    And don't even think about what happens if the guardsmen charge while in Close order drill with an attached priest!
    Where's your Baritone Saxophone?

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    You are aware that the wounds you take from outnumbering can be saved with a normal armour save?
    - Resistance is Futile -

    - I'm not a Nerd! I'm a 13th level Paladin -

    - Jesus saves ..... and takes half damage -

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    Senior Member Terzo's Avatar
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    Overcannon-you've got this whole close combat thing down wrong.

    21 Guardsmen dead
    With all 10 Grey Knights, 18 normal, 3 power weapon attacks, hit on 3+.
    12 normal hits, 2 power weapon hits.
    10 normal wounds, and a little less than two (so I'll round up) power weapon hits.
    Guardsmen save on 5+, so I'll give em 4 saves, which means 8 dead (6 from normal, 2 from power weapon).

    Assume one GK dies.
    Guardsmen attack back. Since I was reffering to conscripts, they need a 5+ to hit. 42 conscripts attack.
    14 of those attacks hit.
    5 of those wound.
    2 Grey Knights die.

    GK outnumbered three to one when the guardsmen don't run. 3 wounds.
    Grey Knights have inflicted 8 wounds. Guardsmen have inflicted 2. Grey Knights win combat, and don't suffer any additional wounds. Also, like Locotus said, the Grey Knights still get their saves if they lose combat.

    I really don't see the conscrpits beating the Grey Knights-only tying them up. Tooling up a commissar to join the fight would be bad. He'll get instakilled by the nemisis weapons, and he'll have a hard time wounding the Knights unless he gets a power fist-in which case he'll be dead before he hits.
    And once the Commissar is dead, what's going to keep your conscripts from running?

    And don't even think about what happens if the guardsmen charge while in Close order drill with an attached priest!
    Think of how many guardsmen would die if there is an incinerator in the squad! And don't forget that the priest is an advisor, so you'll have to purchase at least three in a standard footslogging IG army before you can toss one in with the grunts. Do you really need a priest with your commander?

    I stand by what I said earlier, a horde of conscripts will *not* tear through a squad of Grey Knights, but they *will* tie them up for the majority of the game.

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    Senior Member greymeister's Avatar
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    What's funny is that 50 conscripts even with an independant commissar is still cheaper than 10 PAGK
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    I'd say Psycannon is even better for Anti-infantry if you don't plan on moving. If you move towards the enemy you're firing at then it functions just as well as a storm bolter, and it gets 3 shots.

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