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ok, i have some questions about the shrouding. my freind who plays deamonhunters is really bad about reading his dex, and does not even know about shrouding. hes got about 600 pts built and primered currently. as to my question: what does it affect? i know what it does, but does it affect vehicles and terminators as well as the regular grey knights? what are the fluff reasons for it? (it sounds like a butt-load of cheese to me) some answers would be greatly appreciated, so as i can do the right thing and alert this guy to his own special rule.
pasta mixed with a little death is a nummy treat for you and me!
Any model that "follows GK rules" which is just about any GK infantry model, but it doesn't count vehicles.
Any GK that counts as "Grey Knights" per the codex. Basically, GK Heroes, GK terminators, GK Justicars, and all PAGK. They all have shrouding special ability.
Fluff reasons... all GK are psykers. Basically, their psychic abilities plus their aegis power armor combine to create a psychic "shield" around the model that confuses the minds of any enemies which attempt to shoot them.
A shrouding question from a DH-friendly WH player who is looking into some WH/DH alliance possibiliteis. (I did a search, and this thread came closest to answering my question).
1- Is the shrouding ability lost if a GK squad is joined by a Chacter who is a non-GK?
P. 50 "In some cases though, the [Independent] Character or the Unit may lose their special rules as a result of the Character joining the unit. For example, 'Infiltrate' is lost... more examples p. 74...." Well, damit, Shrouding is not on p.74
I'm leaning towards the ability being retained, because Fearlessness is not lost, and also because there is no specific mention of the shrouding not extending to ICs. Faithfulness, for example, is lost when non-faithful joins the squad. So we have a very specific prescendent.
A similar question:
2- What if an Independent GK (say hero) joins a non-GK squad?
Does he bring the shrouding ability along with him? I lean toward "yes" because there seems to be no description of anything that ever removes the ability.
And another question:
3- What if an independent GK joins a (non GK) squad who already has a priest?
Does the GK get to re-roll misses in CC when he charges?
Now this one, I'll say seems to be "stretching it a bit", although there is really no text that challenges the notion. If an opponent objected to this, I think I would consider D6-ing it. Thoughts?
1> I agree with you. As it is not listed on page 74 then IMO it is not lost. We have had the debate recently though, and many smart people would disagree. its the kind of thing that unitl a FAQ comes out on it, it will be up to speculation.
2> I tend towards no. He is an Independant Character, so he can't be targeted anyway, but the squad he joins doesn't have that ability.
3> Beats the hell out of me?!?! Wait till mEGALOMANIAC or dvang answer, out of my league LOL.
Last edited by Diggums Hammer; February 22nd, 2006 at 03:27.
"A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
Sir Winston Churchil
These are tough questions. To provide a "counter-point", I would say that if a squad is joined by a non-GK, they LOSE the shrouding. My rationale would be that the power is really a manifestation of a group of psykers channeling their combined powers to confuse the enemy. If a non-psyker joined, he/she would not be so covered and thus provide a targeting "focus" for the enemy. Think of the IC as a kind of "markerlight" for the enemy.
Again, the rules aren't very clear, but it would be consistent with the precedent that when an IC joins a squad and they have different capabilities, any special capabilities that both don't individually possess are lost.
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I took a second look at the wording, and I think I'll go with you on this, because of the wording that says, "each time an enemy unit fires at a unit of Grey Knights...". I think that limits it fairly well enough.Originally Posted by Diggums Hammer
I think it's meant to cover the fact that the GKs' purpose in life is to assault. The Shrouding is there to allow footsloggers or DSed FAGK (who are pretty much sitting ducks during the turn you DS them) to actually get into combat which, considering the GK points cost, isn't actually that cheesy. Plus it's far from my favourite GK rule, it's saved me a couple of times but simply planning where you Deep Strike will acheive the same result. IMHO True Grit and S6 attacks are far more cheesy, but hey it's working in my favour so cheese me up ^^Originally Posted by Commander Montka
I do think ICs or any non-GK unit joining the squad should negate Shrouding; RJ makes a good point. Sure the GKs are Shrouded, but all you need to do is aim in the general direction of the Inquisitor who has decided to tag along for a bit of a jolly and you're bound to hit something. I also don't think that GK characters should carry the Shrouding into a unit they're joining; again, the GK is Shrouded but the 10 Guardsmen around him ain't. I think it should count against shooters who can pick their targets, i.e if a Vindicare wanted to target a BC in an IST squad then The Shrouding should apply in that situation, but for general purpose shooting then no. Lastly, a priest? Erm.... pass.
Priest question to me seems to be the easiest of the bunch...the priest ability affects a unit, a character joins the unit and is a part of it, so he is affected by the priests ability.
Question two seems pretty simple, because the shrouding affects units of GreyKnights and a GK surrounded by non greyknights is not a unit of GKs
Along the same lines I think that Question one does not go in your favor as a unit of GKs with a cannoness is not a unit of GKs, it is a unit of miscelanous inquistional charactors.
2d6 times 3 it goes for all grey knights, not vehhhhicles. Grey knigths cost a bunsh dude, it would be unfair if my 10 grey knights that is worth 250-300 points get shotd own right a way!<
The term 'greyknights' means grand master, bro captain, justicar, pagk, termies...etc