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This thread is about some of the bad advice I have seen on the forum. A lot of units have been pointed out as bing "point-sink" units, or units that serve no purpose but to use points.
The units I have seen listed as point sinks are:
Arco Flagellents (though not as commonly)
What do all of these units have in common? They focus on Close combat, and are relatively vulnerable against ranged weapons.
Another common trait (with the exception of the priest) is that each unit potentially moves more than 6" a turn.
Lastly, none of these are "The Best" at close combat. Obviously a repentia isn't as good as a Grey Knight Terminator. Thats why the Terminator costs more than twice what the repentia does! There are plenty of units that can fulfill close combat roles better than these units, but nearly all of them cost more too ( except cheap company, stupid Gav Thorpe and his stupid blood angles! ). Whether its a Nob Squad or a Monstrous creature, if its better than one of those units I listed then it probably costs more.
So what am I getting at? The reason why these units are often viewed as point-sink units really has to do with how difficult it is to use them. They aren't like Khorn Berserkers who you can have blindly charge your oponent and expect them to arrive in one piece, thats why they don't cost as much as Khorn Berserkers. So you have to be intelligent about how you deploy and move them, or else they will almost certainly get stomped by your oponent long before they can be of any use (probably why none of them cost as much as some of the other units).
On the other hand, they ARE stronger in close combat then normal infantry (regular space marines, Tau fire warriors, necron warriors, the list goes on). So these units have a limited role. They aren't going to blunt an assault by your enemies close combat units, but they will demolish your oponents basic troopers (unless their basic trooper IS a very elite close combat unit like Khorn ). So not only do you have to move and deploy these units intelligently but you have to pick your target intelligently or one of those given units will be destroyed.
But isn't that true of most units in any army? To larger and smaller extents, yes. The exorcist is a very sound investment, because it doesn't require as much skill to use. Once terrain has been set up, you can decide which spot gives you the most firing archs, deploy the exorcist there, and stomp your oponent every turn. The high armor means your exorcist wont be destroyed so easily, and the long range means you can hit nearly anything you want. You don't have to worry about it getting destroyed before it can be useful quite so much as you do with the penitent engine, and its main mode of attack doesn't give your oponent an immediate retaliation (like with close combat). You may not have to move your exorcist the entire game, and you don't have to worry so much about an apposing units close combat power before you shoot at them.
Maybe thats why the exorcist costs a lot of points.
Before any of you think that I am basing this off of theory, then you had better check some of my previous posts. I can really only learn from experience. Repentia, penitent engines, Seraphim, and priests have all been extremely affective for me. They have failed me quite a bit too, but after the battle it was pretty obvious why when I analyzed what had happened. In many of the battles I have fought those units have been the most affective thing I have deployed which really makes me cringe every time I see some one advising against things like penitent engines in the army list section. There isn't any unit in the witch hunters codex that can be labeled a point sink.
I agree with what yur saying Shiver, no unit should be labeled as a points sink.
But I do, but not for the reasons you might think. see, I play at a private store where tourneys are 1700pts, I need my armies to be versitile so I try not to take many units with specialist purposes and I call'em pts sinks causee i might not be able to use them fully against all my opponents. Its a mostly just a term I use to explain to other peeps, I know there worth thier points in the right cercumstances but I find that I'm usually in an odd circumstance where the Elites I've taken might not be useful, I try but they usually fail.
So all in all I call units points sinks cause I might not beable to use them properly in all my tourney games.
woah blows your mind...shiver, any experience with sisters reptentia in conjunction
with penitent engines?
-HONORABLE MENTIONS IN BLITZKRIEG PAINTING COMP-
"THAT I.G. GUY WITH THAT OVERDEVELOPED TRIGGER FINGER"
never got the chance to use them at the same time... I just might try though.
Now the units I mentioned are specialized in that they are close combat units, but aren't sisters of battle specialized in ranged combat? I'm not sure what your getting at by using versatility as a justification for not using the units. They are difficult to use to good affect, I will give you that much. I also have to agree that I like units that can do anything they want, which is why all of my sister superiors have Melta bombs and power weapons.
Those close combat units do give added versatility. I remember when the witch hunters codex came out and I painted a penitent engine, that was the first game I was able to do anything other than hold still and shoot! My opponent didn't charge me for once, and tried to destroy the penitent engine. First game I had played where I got to move nearly my entire army the first turn instead of prepare to shoot their charging assault units!
Your no longer limited to being a purely close combat list, you actually HAVE good assault units. Sounds like added versatility to me.
I see what yur saying, but I only really refer to CC units cause if yur against a shooty army, like Tau, they would most likely rip them apart so that they couldn't assault them, basically, they would rather be shot at then assaulted, I had a very bad experience with 5 Swooping hawks, 1 Exarch and Barrahoth, I lost 2 FW squads and nearly a 3rd. ANYWAYS! As a side note the place I play has 4 out of 21, with no DE and no WH I think. In this type of a topic its all really personal preference. So we can argue all we want and get nowhere or we can smile and be secretly confused about the other's outlook!!
as far as most every other unit you listed i am, currently unfamiliar (DAMN EXPENCIVE OF COLLEGES! stealing all my warhammer funds) with. though i do have 2 squads of seraphim, and i swear by them. They REALLY RRRRRRREEEEEEAAAAAALLLLYYYY are ,in my opinion, the best WH unit... save maybe the exorcists...
but here is the catch, they ARE NOT, repeat ARE NOT CC. I DON'T assault with them anymore i just shoot Everything (note i play alot of orks and those flamingly stupid Bloodangels... well flamingly when i'm done ^_~). Twin linked Bolt pistols + Divine Guidance (which isn't needed, but good for killin nob squads in MegaArmour) Plus handflamers and one mastercrafted plasma pistol! ohhh man talk about a lawn mower. then the opponent assaults you, seraphim has a pretty sweet In so you may very well go first, and if you didn't Divine guidance, do a spirit of the martyr (if its that nob squad... power claws are ummm... mean) then Bail out, shoot them again immediatly afterwords
When all else fails, burn every one... or missile them back the Golden throne
Evil Beware, we have waffles!
I strongly agree with Tahidagin. I don't play sisters(although someday I would like to) but, everytime I play against them I pay special attention to the seraphims, just cuz they can be a great hinderence in many of my tactics.
"That is the sound of inevitability"
Shiver, maybe you need to create a 'hth' unit analysis for the forum, to show others how to use them, since everyone thinks they are a point sink.. and don't know how to use.. them... could you show some of us how?
not saying that I dont like these units, but any advice from a vet?