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I already asked this in the Tyranid forum but I was wondering if you guys had any other opinions. Which is better, a Space Marine Dreadnaut or a Tyranid Carnifex?
They are definatelly incomparable.
Secondly, you would really need to define "better".
Close Comabt? Long Range? Options? Support? Deployment? Survivability?
There are so many differing factors.
Due to the new marine codex, Dreadnoughts are indeed better for the sole reason that the carnifex has yet to be revamped for 4th ed. Once the new tyranid codex is released, a better answer to this question could be found. Untill then, the point is nearly moot as the next codex to be released is tyranids.
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Efficiency VS Point Cost VS Ease Of Use - Your best bets:
1) Chaplain led Assault squad - 2 plasma pistols, powerfisted sergeant
2) 8 man Devastator squad - 4 missile launchers
3) Land Speeder Tornado - HB + AC
Fex Wins. 4 wounds vs 1 lucky ML shot..If Ven it's a bit closer, but not quite
Long range :
Dread wins - Las + Ven + ML = A very potent long range threat
Close range :
Tie. The dread has better ini, but the fex can't be killed in 1 shot via p.fist. Vs Eachother, depending who got the charge, I'd put my money on the dread.
VC's are good, and no one wants to eat a fex charge...but a dread tools them in support. The dread can Pen. A fex needs CC to penetrate. Dread wins.
You can't deepstrike a fex via drop pod
I'd argue that a carnie was the equal of a dread at LR. 2 Venom cannons pump out a lot of firepower. Ok, so your not going to be penetrating, but still, if a tank is stunned, it isn't going to be shootingOriginally Posted by Rook
True, the fex's vc's offer alot more anti-troop action that the Dread can come out with as well.
1v1 I'd go for the fex, but over all I'd still probably vote dread.
You gotta figure not only big stuff, but small stuff (eg : infantry with ap2 wepons that don't allow a save), a librarian with a force wepon strike......all that kinda stuff that you cant figure in for survivability
Too true. I just feel that dreads are too fragile.
Besides, if you kill a carnie, so what. It was at the back and that means your not shooting at the things that are about to jump on you. Whereas dreads (I find) tend to be more important to marine armies then a mere distraction.
I play both armies and I find both carnifexs and dreads to be great.Originally Posted by Rook
Even though a fex needs to penetrate it is very good against armour. A fex can get between 12-22av. On average a fex will get 17av. That would make it easy to take down even a LR in cc. Also a fex will generaly have more cc attacks.
Survivability: If in the new nid codex there aren't inv saves it would be a close one. Still with 4 wounds I would say the fex is better even then ven dreads.
Long range: It's hard to think of a thing built to crush being compared to something trying to be both. A dual VC fex is good, but doesn't match up to a shooty dread. Not close.
Close combat: Fex as I meantioned earlier.
Options: Close one, but I would have to say a carnifex. Almost all nids are mutatable and this big guy is no exception.
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I would say Dread because you need anti tank firepower to take it down where as bolter fire could take a carnifex down. I would generally say that a dread has better firepower, having both better weapons and bs, dual vc are nice but so is twin linked lc and a ml. CC is no contest as a carnifex will school even a venerable dread.
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I think we can kinda sum it up into Dreads are better long range, with good CC too. But not as good CC as carnifex, while carni has decent range. I agree with 311 that dreads are better because they need tankfire to go down, where as a carni can go down from bolter fire. I guess if you were going against IG or something tank heavy then you would do better with carni, since theyd have 4 lives when dread might just die 2nd turn to a longrange tank
They both have pros and cons, so I'd say about even. But I'm gonna vote dread since i have a Ven and regular Dread
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i face nids regularly and my freind always uses a fex where as i always use a dreadnought
in my experience the fex would have to take it. my dreadnought always seems to be a major target on the feild because it towers over everything else in my army and most of my oppenents try to take it out early on (i guess their scared of it)
but the fex always does good damage with the 2 vc's
so ya all and all i would have to go with the fex