Space Marine Army - Need Advise - Warhammer 40K Fantasy

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  1. #1
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    Space Marine Army - Need Advise

    Ok i currently have or am getting in next few days (have already bought)


    Space marine commander with banner, power sword and storm bolter.

    Chaplain (normal model straight from blister)

    Tactical Squad (10 men) with rocket launcher and flamer. Sargeant has a lightening fist (what do these do?) and a bolt pistol.

    Tactical Squad (5 men) with no heavy weapons. Sargent has (is this illegal?) a melta combi and power fist, and an iron halo.

    Veteran squad (10 men). 7 have a bolt pistol and chain sword, one has some sort of axe and a plasma gun and another has a plasma gun (i can't take 2 in same squad, right? So the squad goes down to 9 men.

    2 Drop Pods




    I won £50 on the grand national the other day, and am willing to spend £30 on the army, so what should i get? I kind of want a rhino but don't know if they are worth it.

    Also - how many units do i have to start with on the field of play? Can i just make enough drop pods for my whole army?


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  3. #2
    LO Zealot Chaosbrynn's Avatar
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    Hello, welcome to LO and warhammer 40k. Lets see what youve got here.

    Quote Originally Posted by thamkeng
    Space marine commander with banner, power sword and storm bolter.
    The "banner" that comes with the commander is merelly his personal banner. It is not actualy a piece of wargear and has no effect on the game. Purely for looks. Storm bolters do not count as a second close combat weapon and as such he is missing out on an extra attack. SM Hq's are out most powerful close combat units and you shouldnt let them go to waste. See if you can switch the storm bolter for a pistol.

    Quote Originally Posted by thamkeng
    Chaplain (normal model straight from blister)
    Be sure to give him a bolter as well. Also, one of the most devastating things SM can currentlly field, point for point, is a chaplain with jump pack leading an assualt squad. I highlly recommend every Marine caoomander at least have one of these even if you dont intend to always use it.

    Quote Originally Posted by thamkeng
    Tactical Squad (10 men) with rocket launcher and flamer. Sargeant has a lightening fist (what do these do?) and a bolt pistol.
    First off, flamers should be kept for models that move 12". The chances you get to use them on tactical squads are to far and few between to make them worth it. Secondlly, you must stand still to fire a missile launcher. As such you wont be able to move towards the enemy to use teh flamer. They are contradictory weapons. I recommend removing the flamer.

    Secondlly, there is no such thing as a lightning fist. You have either a powerfist (witch is an amazing weapon for any sergeant (NOT HQ) who will see close combat (there is a tactica in the pinned thread at the top of the space marine forum that goes into detauil as to why they are so good). Or a Lightning claw, witch you shoudl remove if its on a sergeant as they work much much better on commanders, in pairs, as that is the only way they gain an additional attack for 2 weapons. Or you have a thunder hammer. Wicth while expensive, is also fine for the sergeant.

    Quote Originally Posted by thamkeng
    Tactical Squad (5 men) with no heavy weapons. Sargent has (is this illegal?) a melta combi and power fist, and an iron halo.
    It is not illegal. However, combi weapons also do not count as a second close combat weapon and as the fist is so good, you want as many attacks as possible with it. Secondlly, you may only have a single relic in your entire army and giving it (the iron halo) to a lowlly model like a sergeant is a massive waste. It would be much better off protecting your expensive commander.

    Quote Originally Posted by thamkeng
    Veteran squad (10 men). 7 have a bolt pistol and chain sword, one has some sort of axe and a plasma gun and another has a plasma gun (i can't take 2 in same squad, right? So the squad goes down to 9 men.
    That is correct, you may only have a single plasma gun in your squad. Secondlly, are you sure it is not a plasma pistol? you may have one of those as well as a plasma gun and in combination with the axe will give you one extra attack as a second close combat weapon. The axe is most likelly a power weapon.

    Quote Originally Posted by thamkeng
    2 Drop Pods
    Drop pods are good to have. (Y)

    Quote Originally Posted by thamkeng
    I won £50 on the grand national the other day, and am willing to spend £30 on the army, so what should i get? I kind of want a rhino but don't know if they are worth it.
    They are certainly NOT worth how much the cost. You wilol certainly feel as though you have wasted your money. I would recommend ANY other vehicle over it. In fact, as long as you stay away from a rhino, you will find a use for whatever you buy. What is your playing style? it would help us define a better unit for you to buy.

    Quote Originally Posted by thamkeng
    Also - how many units do i have to start with on the field of play? Can i just make enough drop pods for my whole army?
    Yes, if you wish you can deploy your entire army via drop pods. Hopwever, this is a dangerous tactic as your army has a chance to come into play piecemeal over many turns. If this hgappens your oponent will only have to deal with a small piece of your force at one time and will be able to concentrate fire upon those units as they come in. I wouldnt recommend drop podding more then half your force.

    Cheers Mate!
    Chaosbrynn
    Mentor of Space Marine Commanders far and wide.

    Efficiency VS Point Cost VS Ease Of Use - Your best bets:

    1) Chaplain led Assault squad - 2 plasma pistols, powerfisted sergeant

    2) 8 man Devastator squad - 4 missile launchers

    3) Land Speeder Tornado - HB + AC

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    Assuming that i cannot change anything (mainly beacuse i am too lazy) or change a lot anyway, what is the best way to go about setting out my army?



    In response to your comments:

    The "banner" that comes with the commander is merelly his personal banner. It is not actualy a piece of wargear and has no effect on the game. Purely for looks. Storm bolters do not count as a second close combat weapon and as such he is missing out on an extra attack. SM Hq's are out most powerful close combat units and you shouldnt let them go to waste. See if you can switch the storm bolter for a pistol.
    I will take the iron halo from the sergent in other squad and give it to my commander but i don't think i can change the storm bolter (my friend painted my commander and took a long time over it, but since he is not quite finished and shoulder pads are not on i will see what i can do about giving him a bolt pistol. Would a plasma pistol be ok, or should it be a bolt pistol only?




    Be sure to give him a bolter as well. Also, one of the most devastating things SM can currentlly field, point for point, is a chaplain with jump pack leading an assualt squad. I highlly recommend every Marine caoomander at least have one of these even if you dont intend to always use it.
    My friend gave me the chaplain and he has a bolt pistol i think, can i just stick a jump pack on his pack and it will work?



    First off, flamers should be kept for models that move 12". The chances you get to use them on tactical squads are to far and few between to make them worth it. Secondlly, you must stand still to fire a missile launcher. As such you wont be able to move towards the enemy to use teh flamer. They are contradictory weapons. I recommend removing the flamer.

    Secondlly, there is no such thing as a lightning fist. You have either a powerfist (witch is an amazing weapon for any sergeant (NOT HQ) who will see close combat (there is a tactica in the pinned thread at the top of the space marine forum that goes into detauil as to why they are so good). Or a Lightning claw, witch you shoudl remove if its on a sergeant as they work much much better on commanders, in pairs, as that is the only way they gain an additional attack for 2 weapons. Or you have a thunder hammer. Wicth while expensive, is also fine for the sergeant.

    It is not illegal. However, combi weapons also do not count as a second close combat weapon and as the fist is so good, you want as many attacks as possible with it. Secondlly, you may only have a single relic in your entire army and giving it (the iron halo) to a lowlly model like a sergeant is a massive waste. It would be much better off protecting your expensive commander.

    Would it be better to set out my squads like this then:

    Tac Squad 1: 5 Men, no special sergent, Missile Launcher

    Tac Squad 2: 4 Men + Sergent with power fist and plasma combi (sorry i can't/don't want to change this) two men with flamers (taking that trait that means i can do that) and two other bolter men

    Tac Squad 3: 4 Men + Sergent with Lightning Claw (can't change this, what does it do as a one weapon) and bolt pistol and other men have no special weapons.

    I will give the iron halo to my commander


    Drop pods are good to have.

    I havn't actually made them yet, where is the site i can get the templates from?


    That is correct, you may only have a single plasma gun in your squad. Secondlly, are you sure it is not a plasma pistol? you may have one of those as well as a plasma gun and in combination with the axe will give you one extra attack as a second close combat weapon. The axe is most likelly a power weapon.

    They are plasma pistols, as i have said earlier, could i give one to my commander? I forgot to mention that the sargent has a power fist and his pistol has broken off but i have a bolt pistol spare which i will glue on. It doesn't matter that he is a space wolf and i collect ultramarines - i can just say he was found wandering around and joined up with my company. Right?


    Yes, if you wish you can deploy your entire army via drop pods. Hopwever, this is a dangerous tactic as your army has a chance to come into play piecemeal over many turns. If this hgappens your oponent will only have to deal with a small piece of your force at one time and will be able to concentrate fire upon those units as they come in. I wouldnt recommend drop podding more then half your force.

    Ok i will bear that in mind, however if i am playing against an army that is very spread out it may be ok seeing as i can put a drop pod in at each place and bopefully not get too shot up. I think.



    They are certainly NOT worth how much the cost. You wilol certainly feel as though you have wasted your money. I would recommend ANY other vehicle over it. In fact, as long as you stay away from a rhino, you will find a use for whatever you buy. What is your playing style? it would help us define a better unit for you to buy.

    Ok so no rhino. I don't really have a playing style, im kind of new to playing warhammer, i have a 1.5k IG force, but i hardly ever battled with them, and when i did we never played completely by the rules. With my space marines i would like them to be a good shooty force, but also have at least some units who can assault well, as the three armies i am going to be playing against most (my two friends who play and my brother) are tyranid, space marine and chaos. I prefer using troops over tanks, as i don't like painting them much. I also dislike bikes as they take ages to paint I like the idea of being able to lay down a good field of fire and then being able to drop pod/deep trike some good assault troops in, perhaps termies?


    Thank you very much for your time and assistance!

  5. #4
    LO Zealot Chaosbrynn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thamkeng
    Assuming that i cannot change anything (mainly beacuse i am too lazy) or change a lot anyway, what is the best way to go about setting out my army?
    Too lazy? Shame on you. Take a knife to them. You will be happier (and more succeful) in the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by thamkeng
    I will take the iron halo from the sergent in other squad and give it to my commander but i don't think i can change the storm bolter (my friend painted my commander and took a long time over it, but since he is not quite finished and shoulder pads are not on i will see what i can do about giving him a bolt pistol. Would a plasma pistol be ok, or should it be a bolt pistol only?
    Take a sharp knife, and cut the hand at the wrist. Glue on a bolt pistol as they come with a hand attached. A plasma pistol would be fine as well although they are expensive.

    Quote Originally Posted by thamkeng
    My friend gave me the chaplain and he has a bolt pistol i think, can i just stick a jump pack on his pack and it will work?
    Take a knife to the back pack he currentlly has and place a jump pack in its place. The jump pack will not "fit over" the backpack.

    Quote Originally Posted by thamkeng
    Would it be better to set out my squads like this then:

    Tac Squad 1: 5 Men, no special sergent, Missile Launcher

    Tac Squad 2: 4 Men + Sergent with power fist and plasma combi (sorry i can't/don't want to change this) two men with flamers (taking that trait that means i can do that) and two other bolter men

    Tac Squad 3: 4 Men + Sergent with Lightning Claw (can't change this, what does it do as a one weapon) and bolt pistol and other men have no special weapons.
    First squad is fine. Second squad, you DEFINATELLY need to drop the combi weapon. It doesnt giv e you an extra attack and a single plasma shot (witch is all you get from a combi wepaon) is not worth the points. Go with a plasma pistol instead if you want the shooting power. But a bolt pistol is all you need. A single lightning claw needs a second. However, powerfists are the way to go on sergeants. Honestlly I would cut this off the sergeant and place it on your commander. You will require a second lightning claw as the only way to gain the additional attack with a lightning claw, is a second lightning claw. So, as is, the bolt pistol isnt really doing anything for you. As to what it does, you will have to get yourself a rulebook. They are listed there under special weapons. Handing out such information is against GW copyrights protection and can get us shut down. This is all detailed in the posting rules.......wicth I am sure you read before posting, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by thamkeng
    I havn't actually made them yet, where is the site i can get the templates from?
    PM me your email address and I will email it to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by thamkeng
    They are plasma pistols, as i have said earlier, could i give one to my commander? I forgot to mention that the sargent has a power fist and his pistol has broken off but i have a bolt pistol spare which i will glue on. It doesn't matter that he is a space wolf and i collect ultramarines - i can just say he was found wandering around and joined up with my company. Right?
    You said plasma guns earlier. plasma guns and plasma pistols, while they have the same stats, are different weapons. Yes, you can give one to your commander. No, it doesnt matter that he is a space wolf model. You dont even need to justify it. Powerfists are DEFINATELLY the way to go for sergeants that will see cloase combat.

    Quote Originally Posted by thamkeng
    Ok i will bear that in mind, however if i am playing against an army that is very spread out it may be ok seeing as i can put a drop pod in at each place and bopefully not get too shot up. I think.
    The problem with drop pod armies is that you do not get to dictate when the drop pods come in. So if you have 10 drop pods, probability wise, 5 will come in on the second turn, 3 will come in on the third turn and the last 2 will come in on the 4th turn. This could go better or worse for you depending on the reserve rolls. Relying on your opoenents to make mistakes for your army to be succesful is a big mistake. The problem with this, is that as your army comes into play (remember, they can not move or assault on the turn they drop into play and so will basically be sitting ducks until your next turn) your oponent can use his entire force to concentarte fire on a small part of yours. Marines are generally outnumbered as it so you dont want to add to this disadvantage. If your opoenent can whipe out whatever drops (witch is a real possiblity) you will have an incredibly tough time claiming victory as you will basically only be able to use each squad for one round of shooting and they count as moving. I highly recommend against this tactic.

    Quote Originally Posted by thamkeng
    Ok so no rhino. I don't really have a playing style, im kind of new to playing warhammer, i have a 1.5k IG force, but i hardly ever battled with them, and when i did we never played completely by the rules. With my space marines i would like them to be a good shooty force, but also have at least some units who can assault well, as the three armies i am going to be playing against most (my two friends who play and my brother) are tyranid, space marine and chaos. I prefer using troops over tanks, as i don't like painting them much. I also dislike bikes as they take ages to paint I like the idea of being able to lay down a good field of fire and then being able to drop pod/deep trike some good assault troops in, perhaps termies?
    A squad of temies is indeed good to have, but the main shooting strength of marines is the devsatator squad. I recommend an 8 man squad with 4 missile launchers. Point for point they are a fantastic unit and will perform exceptionally well against the armies you have listed as your main oponents. Secondlly, assault squads led by chaplains are the premiere assaulters for SM at the moment and a full squad would do you good. They also have the ability to deepstrike when the mission allows.

    Go to the army list forum and check out some of the army lists there and what people have said about them. They may give you a better idea of what you are looking for.


    Quote Originally Posted by thamkeng
    Thank you very much for your time and assistance!
    My pleasure.
    Mentor of Space Marine Commanders far and wide.

    Efficiency VS Point Cost VS Ease Of Use - Your best bets:

    1) Chaplain led Assault squad - 2 plasma pistols, powerfisted sergeant

    2) 8 man Devastator squad - 4 missile launchers

    3) Land Speeder Tornado - HB + AC

  6. #5
    Senior Member Tycho's Avatar
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    Hi Thamkeng,
    1st things 1st which Space Marnie chapter do you collect that would help on giving you advice on what to spend your money on(which i dont know how much it is cus i live in Australia and dont know your currency lol!).
    Anyway Back on subject with the Space Marine commander i would as Chaosbyrne said drop the storm bolter so he gets the exta attack which he really needs.And if hes going to be an independent Character,meaning not joined by another squad then id give him a jump pack so he can get in combat quicker.Id also give him an Iron Halo so he has a chance to survive if he gets shot by a high strenth weapon or low ap weapon.

    Also if your playing low point games (small games) i would only take 1 HQ not 2 probobly the chaplain and maybe you could buy an assault squad to join him so they could re roll to hit due to his Litities of Hate rule.

    For your 1st Tactical squad id make it a 10 man with a missile launcher and a plasma gun.And use that squad as fire support.

    Id buy another Tactical squad so you have more troops.

    For the second Tactical squad i suggest this:10 man with a vet serg with a power fist,give the squad a melta gun and maybe if you want a missile launcher.

    And definately take out the combi melta weapon as chaosbyrne has explained why.

    I personally wouldnt take a vetran squad unless i gave them some power weapons and special equipment such as plasma guns and such.I would trade this for a assault squad which i think you should buy with the tactical squad,give the assault squad 2 plasma pistols seems that you seem to like expensive powerful pistols lol and give the vet serg a power fist.
    Oh and put the chaplain in the squad it will b a awesome combination allowing the sergent with the power fist to re roll his missed to hits and letting the rest of the squad and the chaplain re roll theirs aswell.

    Drop pods are cool but as Chaosbyrne said your enemy especially if they are a shooty one eg tau,eldar etc to pick of each unit that comes down with ease.It will be like shooting ducks lol!

    Depending on which chapter you are feilding im not sure what you should buy.Get back to me on this but at the moment id suggest
    1)Another Tactical Squad
    2)Assault Squad
    3)And some plasma guns so you can drop those flamers

    I hoped this helped if you have anymore questions id b happy to ask
    Regards CaptTycho

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    I'm collecting ultramarines, but not quite ultramarines if you see what i mean. I am going to take traits, and not take ultramarine special characters, but use ultramarine colours.

    If the £30 means nothing, i could buy:

    2 10 man Tactical Squads

    OR

    2 Rhinos

    OR

    The Razorback + 5 Troops & say an apocathery.


    Hope you get the idea...

    I think i am going to buy the razorback + men, turn it into a rhino and use the extra heavy weapons to form a devastator squad. I will probably buy another combat squad (5 men) and maybe some plasma guns.

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    Ok this is my new army list, and the stuff in bold is what i want to get.


    HQ

    Commander - Power Sword And Storm Bolter (May change to bolt pistol)

    HQ Squad (not sure if i can do this at all, or if it is legal, my codex hasn't arrived yet) - Standard Bearer, 3 Men with Bolters and one with a plasma pistol, I would like to put in a sargent with power fist, but i don't think i can, right?

    Chaplain - Standard chaplain weaponary

    Troops

    Tactical Squad Aquarius - Sergent with Power Fist and Bolt Pistol, 4 men with bolters.

    Tactical Squad Numonimous - Sergent with bolt pistol and chainsword (i know it's not good but the squad isn't great anyway, just to make up more men really), 4 men with bolters.

    Tactical Squad Decimodous - Sergent with Power Fist and bolt pistol, 5 men with bolters, 1 man with a flamer.

    Scout Squad Hegonomous - 1 man with heavy bolter and not sure what to get for the rest of the squad, should i just get the box of 5 scouts?


    Elites

    Veteran Squad 'The Wolves' - Sergent with power fist and bolt pistol, 1 man with plasma pistol and power axe (i think it is a power axe) 7 men with bolt pistols and chainswords.


    Heavy Support

    Devastator Squad Tornementus - Sergent with bolt pistol and close combat weapon, 3 men with bolters, 3 men with rocket launchers, and one other heavy weapon that i havn't decided which to get yet, probably another missile launcher.



    The Veteran squad i will probably give terminator honours to, along with a couple of the tactical squads, as my codex hasn't quite arrived yet, could someone give me a rough outline of what number of points this is, along with any more tips on what to get for the army.

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    Deleted.
    Last edited by samurai_socks; January 4th, 2016 at 15:42. Reason: DELETED.

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    Change to a b.pistol, + t.honours + an iron halo. This army isnt that many points so you really only need one HQ choice. In a fight to death the chappie will win, so pick him.

    I really like both my commander and my chaplain, so i will keep them both in, but put my chaplain in an assault sqaud with jump pack. My commander has an iron halo - forgot to mention.


    Close enough, you can fix this squad a tad when your codex arrives, p. pistol will have to be swapped for a p.gun unless the pistol is for the sarge. My advice would be to take 2 m.guns instead. Good Ap and great against tanks. Probs a company champion too if you are going to take this squad, i would also give them all, bp/ccw's and infiltrate if you must use them.
    Does a company champion come in blister packs?

    What is bp and ccw?

    The plasma pistol is for the sergent also I will try and buy one or two melta guns, however my funding is not huge



    Standard...no such thing in this game.
    B.pistol + t.honours + jump pack/bike + (possibly) artificer armour
    He has a bolt pistol, a staff thing with feathers on the end and i will give him a jump pack. What is artificer armour?



    Ok umm b.fist and b.pistol = good, but 5 guys is just too few, 6 is a bare minimum, this squad should probs have 8 guys and a p.gun.

    I thought it might be better to have smaller squads since i am mainly playing against tyranids, chaos, IG and other space marines. The space marines i play against are very versitile and move around the board quickly (drop podding and deep striking in a lot of units) and space themselves out so i thought to combat them all take smaller squads? I also thought it might be better to have some squads just without heavy weaponary, as these squads will be the ones i assault the enemy with, and thus it takes up needless points?



    Combine some of this squad with the squad above, to make a 8 man squad with a v.serg and a p.gun/m.gun/m.launcher.

    As above.



    Use some of the other marines from above to beef up the size of this squad. Drop the flamer. Take a m.launcher for this squad.
    Is the flamer not good against closely packed enemies such as imperial guard? I thought it might be better in a squad like this to have a flamer for when i get close to the enemy.



    Scouts are great, and there are x3 ways to use them, either x5 snipers+ m.launcher, x5 bolters+ h.bolter, x6 ccw + heavy boter + v.serg +p.fist. I think it is pretty obvious how you would use all these squads.
    I will go for the x5 h. bolter and h.bolter seeing as i can buy that the most easily


    Ok this unit is too many points for foot slogers. Either infiltrate them, give them a crusader(dont like that option), or drop them and put in a squad of assault marines with jump packs and slip the chappie in with them. Keep the v.serg with p.fist in the assault squad.

    I was planning to drop pod these guys and then support them with a squad of assault marines or drop pod another set of normal marines in with them.



    Drop the b.pistol/ccw, on the serg take all bolters. You should go x4 bolters, x4 m.launchers. When you get your codex take a look at traits. Tank hunter for this squad would be great.

    I am slightly limited by funding, and i don't really have any men who i could swap my sergent for, and beacuse he has a bolt pistol i thought i might as well keep him there.


    Vet. squads are expenisve...just too expensive for my taste. Especially when you have already taken a command squad.


    I need something to assault people well though... don't i? These guys will all get an extra attack (right?) and be invaluable when i get into CC, i think. Maybe i am wrong



    Vet. squads are expenisve...just too expensive for my taste. Especially when you have already taken a command squad.

    Playability- 6/10
    Army comp - 5/10

    We cannot list specific points values, but i would say your topping above 1000 with this list. This list as it stand just now, is NOT a competitive list however.

    Things to get rid of -
    1. master - 2 HQ's are only needed in 1850+
    2. flamers- they just dont cut it.
    3. veteran squad
    4. command squad

    Things to add-
    1. Landspeeders- assault cannon/h.bolter great troop killer and gives mobility to your army.
    2. Landspeeder- m.melta, deep striking tank hunter
    3. More troop squads, troops should be between 6 and 10 men. And should have a heavy weapon OR a special weapon (special weapons squads should have a v.serg with p.fist, and either a transport or infiltrate).
    4. Dread would be a nice addition, probs a long range dread as your only real anti tank is the dev squad, TLL, Missile launcher, ven, tank hunter, extra armour.
    5. Drop pod dread, assault cannon, ven, extra armour, smoke, heavy flamer.
    6. Scout bikes cheap assault unit, just keep them behind cover.
    7. Bikes great hidh tougness mobile fire power for troop killing with h.bolter attack bikes and a chappie, or tank kill with x2 m.guns and a m.melta attack bike



    I don't want to drop anything as, as i have said i have limited funds, however in the additions section i think i am going to buy a landspeeder and use the multi melta option, and as you say use it as a deep striking tank hunter, and either a dreadbought (which weapons should i use if i get this?) or another bike (i just found 2 old space marine bikes so that'd make a squad) along with a combat squad to boost all my squads or an assault squad.

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    Anyone? Please?

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