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    Ravenwing tactics

    I'm a new player that just started a Ravenwing army and have had some trouble getting a feel for it...hoping I could get some advice from some more experienced players.

    Here's my 2k point army list as of now:

    3 Squads of 2 landspeeders with the assault cannon
    Master of Ravenwing (landspeeder, attached to one of the squads)
    2 Squads of 5 Bikes (with vet. sgt., 2 plasma guns, and an assault bike)
    2 squads of 5 Bikes (same as above but with multi-meltas)
    1 squad of 5 bikes (same as above but with just bike mounted bolters on the normal bikes)
    Librarian on bike (with power weapon, attached to one of the squads)

    I've only played a few games with Necrons so far and I've found that getting the bikes into close combat with the necrons (maybe ganging up 2 squads per necron unit) really helps, but I still get whittled away too fast. Also, my speeders are getting chewed up (I usually keep them far back and blast at far range right before the bikes get into assault)

    Is there something else I could be doing? Any favorite tactics you all have tried? I need some more ideas!


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    Member Jaileint's Avatar
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    Don't put the speeders where they can be fired on with troop weapons. Use their high mobility to place them out of range / LOS with a good bead on their target only. With armor of 10, they will get shot down pretty quick if your opponent is able to shoot his regular troop weapons at them. I personally don't think an army can depend on speeders. They are a nice to have, but don't count on them.

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    Senior Member Sithlet's Avatar
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    I think Ravenwing is just an army that takes a lot of learning to play. Speeders are fragile but very powerful. Make sure they keep moving. The bikes should be able to close fast and pour some great fire into units and then take them out. I would try to concentrate the bikes (all of them) into 1 or 2 squads, like a hammer technique to smash the enemy one squad at a time. Additionally, using the melta bikes to try and quickly take out enemy anti-tank vehicles and another bike squad to tie up a heavy weapon squad should also help your speeders survive longer, since that likely consists of a majority of the enemy's firepower that can outrange your speeders.
    Sithlet

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    Senior Member wolfkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sithlet
    I think Ravenwing is just an army that takes a lot of learning to play. Speeders are fragile but very powerful. Make sure they keep moving. The bikes should be able to close fast and pour some great fire into units and then take them out. I would try to concentrate the bikes (all of them) into 1 or 2 squads, like a hammer technique to smash the enemy one squad at a time. Additionally, using the melta bikes to try and quickly take out enemy anti-tank vehicles and another bike squad to tie up a heavy weapon squad should also help your speeders survive longer, since that likely consists of a majority of the enemy's firepower that can outrange your speeders.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaileint
    Don't put the speeders where they can be fired on with troop weapons. Use their high mobility to place them out of range / LOS with a good bead on their target only. With armor of 10, they will get shot down pretty quick if your opponent is able to shoot his regular troop weapons at them. I personally don't think an army can depend on speeders. They are a nice to have, but don't count on them.
    Both of these posts offer valid and sound advice. My personal opinion is that one of your Speeder squads should be armed with Multi Melta's. The Assault Cannon is good, but it isn't everything.

    I don't use Bike Squads that contain 2 Plasma's or 2 Melta's, I use 1 of each in a squad, it makes them slightly more versatile in my opinion.

    Use the Master Of The Ravenwings 'fly-by' attack to take out annoying heavy weapons guys or to break down a Character figures wounds with no attack back.

    Just keep moving, hide when you can, and 'lure' the enemy to you rather than wade into him.

    Wolfkin
    Army:

    Terminator Based Custom Chapter


    http://www.terrascenic.co.uk

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    LO Zealot Chaosbrynn's Avatar
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    Hello,

    I play Ravenwing and my 1500 list is comprised of 13 speeders. They are incrediblly powerful. True, they are fragile and are more of a finess weapon then any other unit in the marine codex, but when used properlly, they are devastating.

    For Ravenwing, I have found that it is best to leave the anti-infantry duties to speeders and anti-tank duties to bikes. Before going on be sure to read Both my Bike tacticas and my speeder tactica. They will detail various tactics and startegies as well as what weapon options are more favorable.

    They can be found here:
    http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...ad.php?t=29910 (Index Of Space Marine Articles and FAQ's)

    Once you have read these tacticas you should be well on your way to understanding Ravenwing as Ravenwing was what I used in most cases to test these tactics.

    A couple things I can tell you right off the bat however is:

    Plasma on bikers is a big nono. One of the greatest advantages of bikers is the ability to let out a hail of shots and assault in the same turn. As such, stick with either flamers or meltaguns witch will not stop you from assualting like a plasma gun will.

    The master on speeders all seeing eye ability is best used on squadrons of 3 speeders with HB's and assualt cannons. The way you protect this squad is through blocking LOS to them from everything except their target. The target of course will be anihilated by the 3 HB's and 3 AC's all re-rolling failed shots. Especially the AC's as each failed shot actually becomes an extra chance to rend.

    As wolfkin pointed out, the masters close combat attack can specify a target in a squad. This allows you to pick off hidden powerfists, heavy weapons, squad leaders, and characters. Make use of this ability but be sure not to leave him in the open. Especially handy against enemies with toughness 3 as it will autokill them. Many a farseer has fallen to my master on speeders close combat attack. Keep in mind the close combat attack does not keep him from firing.

    ALWAYS move every unit in a ravenwing force. The 6+ invulnerable save WILL work for you but only if you give it the best chance possible to. Its not a great save, but if every time you are shot, you get to roll one, you will invariablly make some of them.

    Bikes are fantastic all around troops. But equipped properlly make some of the best tank hunters we have access to. With 2 melta guns alone, they are formidable as the boost of the bike as well as its normal 12" movment makes it very likelly you will end up in the half range necessary for the melta effect.

    I see that you neglected the hidden powerfits on your biker sergeants and recommend you fix this. A hidden powerfist tactica can be found in the above link as well.

    Switch your librarian to a chaplain on bike. They are much better bike leaders. Be sure the sergeant of the squad he is attached to has a powerfist. This squad can then:

    Fire 7 tl bolters (5 bike, chaplain, attack bike) and a heavy bolter and follow that up with an assualt that rerolls all misses. You can swap in melta guns or flamers depending on wether you are fighting heavy or light infantry. Either way, this is perhaps my favorite squad and alwaus performs very well. I recommend Artificer armor on the chaplain as it allows him to boost for a 2+ invulnerable save.

    Be sure to read the 4 tacticas I mentioned as I am sure they cover many of the things you are having difficulty with. Once you have done that, post your army in the army list section and we will go over it and see how to make it more effective. Ravenwing is perhaps one of the most difficult of the marine chapters to play but can also be the most rewarding.

    Check my profile if you would like to add me to your msn, I am always up for a good chat about ranvenwing.

    Cheers Mate!
    Chaosbrynn
    Mentor of Space Marine Commanders far and wide.

    Efficiency VS Point Cost VS Ease Of Use - Your best bets:

    1) Chaplain led Assault squad - 2 plasma pistols, powerfisted sergeant

    2) 8 man Devastator squad - 4 missile launchers

    3) Land Speeder Tornado - HB + AC

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    The Master's fly-by attack: Do I have to end my movement phase with him 2 inches from the target I want to attack, or does moving past the target in the course of the moving phase count? It seems to me that if I have to end movement 2 inches from the target, that leaves the Master and his squad pretty vulnerable to counterattack.

    Also, what are the rules for hit-and-run? Can Space Marines do this? Is it something I should try to get good at?

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    Senior Member wolfkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asmith80
    The Master's fly-by attack: Do I have to end my movement phase with him 2 inches from the target I want to attack, or does moving past the target in the course of the moving phase count? It seems to me that if I have to end movement 2 inches from the target, that leaves the Master and his squad pretty vulnerable to counterattack.

    Also, what are the rules for hit-and-run? Can Space Marines do this? Is it something I should try to get good at?
    Forget Hit-And-Run... it's got nothing to do with Ravenwing.

    The fly-by attack is done as you pass, so no, you do not have to stop within 2" of the target. Simply move the Master and so long as that move took him within 2" of the chosen target, the attack may be executed.

    You say "Master and his squad"... so far as I know, in the lasest download on the GW site, he can no longer have a squad.

    Wolfkin
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    Terminator Based Custom Chapter


    http://www.terrascenic.co.uk

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    LO Zealot Chaosbrynn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfkin
    You say "Master and his squad"... so far as I know, in the lasest download on the GW site, he can no longer have a squad.
    True, I hate them for it, but its true. But you can still attach him to another speeder squadron.
    Mentor of Space Marine Commanders far and wide.

    Efficiency VS Point Cost VS Ease Of Use - Your best bets:

    1) Chaplain led Assault squad - 2 plasma pistols, powerfisted sergeant

    2) 8 man Devastator squad - 4 missile launchers

    3) Land Speeder Tornado - HB + AC

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    Chaos, in your tactica you say that jinking gives the Ravenwing an invulnerable save, but the way it's written it sounds like jinking gives them the save at their normal armor roll (3+ or 2+). I though the invulnerable save was a 6+ and if you took it you couldn't make a normal armor save.

    Also, I'm still a little confused as to how many times a biker can theoretically attack in a round...

    is it once (or twice if in range) in the shooting phase, another shot in the assault phase and then the assault? Or is it, shoot in the shooting phase or assault but not all three?

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    LO Zealot Chaosbrynn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asmith80
    Chaos, in your tactica you say that jinking gives the Ravenwing an invulnerable save, but the way it's written it sounds like jinking gives them the save at their normal armor roll (3+ or 2+). I though the invulnerable save was a 6+ and if you took it you couldn't make a normal armor save.
    Bikers and speeders, so long as they have moved a minimum of 6", are allowed to take a 6+ invulnearable "jinking" (moves moving rapidlly to the saide) save. You are only ever allowed to take 1 save against an attack. Bikes get a different invulnerable save from boosting. THAT save is their normal save gone invulnerable. This is different then the ravenwing jink save. And yes, as you can only take a single save versus an attack, you either get your normal save, or your jink save. Use the normal save (except on speeders as they dont have one so should always use the jink save) unless you are shot by something that penetrates your armor, in that case use the jink save. Unless of course you boosted in your movement phase (witch means yuo cant shoot or assualt but you can move up to 24" and your normal save becomes invulnerable) in witch case you would take the better boost invulnerable save as opposed to the jink save.

    Quote Originally Posted by asmith80
    Also, I'm still a little confused as to how many times a biker can theoretically attack in a round...

    is it once (or twice if in range) in the shooting phase, another shot in the assault phase and then the assault? Or is it, shoot in the shooting phase or assault but not all three?
    [/QUOTE]

    Bikers may:

    Shoot once at 24" range, or twice at 12" range with the TL, bike mounted bolters.
    They may also fire assault weapons at this point (flamers and melta-guns)

    Then, they may assault (the normal restrictions against firing rapidfire weapons and assaulting are re3moved because the bolters are mounted on the bike. Note this does not carry over to a model carrying a plasma gun and as such, bikers should never be given plasma guns as firing it would stop the entire squad from assaulting) a squad withing 6".

    The only real difference to a normal squad is the fact that the restrictions are removed from the bolters becuase they are mounted on the bike.

    Again, this means you may:

    Fire once at 24" range or twice at 12" range, regardless of wether you moved or not (normally you may only fire at 24" range if you havnt moved).

    Assault in the same round you fired the bolters (normally, if a squad has a weapon classified as "rapid-fire" and someone in the squad fires that rapidfire weapon, the entire squad may not assault that turn).

    Clearer?
    Chaosbrynn
    Mentor of Space Marine Commanders far and wide.

    Efficiency VS Point Cost VS Ease Of Use - Your best bets:

    1) Chaplain led Assault squad - 2 plasma pistols, powerfisted sergeant

    2) 8 man Devastator squad - 4 missile launchers

    3) Land Speeder Tornado - HB + AC

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