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Hey, not sure if this is better off here or in the fluff pool....
Just gearing up for a new IG project (selling off every other model my 6 brothers have accumulated for the past god-knows-how-long to pay for it)and have moved in here at Librarium with you lot. So Hello one and all.....
So yeah, gonna be slowly 'accumulating' FW Elysians, converting, sculpting, paintstakingly painting, and generally working on pretty in-depth Fluff to back it up. AND following the whole process on what i hope will be the best IG site going.
Anyhoo, i waffle. Im working on some fluff and im wondering if anyone knows much about unit markings: Firstly, anyone who knows about real life examples (ww2-modern),
Secondly, anyone who knows much about IG fluff and to what level standard Guard are marked up (considering the huge scale of Imperial forces...).
I forget how the Cadian transfer sheet works, its mentioned in the codex i think, but im not gonna use them. Thinking about making my own decals. Mostly im wanting to find out what ur regular Imperial Grunt would wear (squad-platoon-company-regiment...) without tattooing them with a list of numbers all the way up to the huge planetary formations they are raised from.
That was all abit long winded, but u get the idea, get back to me if youve got some answers......
I don't quite understand the large majority of your questions, but to answer one of them, I don't put decals on anything but tanks and my standard. It's just too much work to put squad numbers on every last one of the guys.
We'll show these filthy aliens what Imperial Guard are made of!
You mean markings like rank badges and regimental markings? That varies with each paticular legion. Some legions have lots of clear and organised markings (like the Cadians) some have barely any (Catachans). It's entirely up to you what kinds of markings they have on thier uniform.As far as I know there is no "standard", but I imagine if there is one,it would be identical to the system used by the Cadians. The Cadians are pretty by the book.There's a few examples in the codex.
If you dont get the questions then why reply?
If i wanted Cadian transfers id get them off the sheet.
Im asking Fluff stuff, if anyone knows much about the structure of the IG and how the various ranks and regimental markings can be used on imperial guard models in comparison to real life examples.
Notice I did answer one of your questions. I didn't get the other ones. Hence, me replying.Originally Posted by Lickspittle
The only transfers you'll find that are pertinant to the Imeperial Guard are on the Cadian transfer sheet. It includes the army badges for the other armys, like Steel Legion. There aren't any "ranks" in IG. Technically, the Junior Officers are "Lieutenants" and the Senior Officers are "Colonels." However, most of the time, they're just simply Junior and Senior officers, in order to indicate their leadership, etc. The only organization lies in the Command platoon leading the Infantry platoons. But it's not as if the CP actually "leads" the infantry. In terms of regimental organization, the standard IG army, HQ, Infantry, tanks, whatever, is a single company in a regiment. For example, my army, as designated by the decals on my standard, is a company in the 11th Cadian Guard Regiment.
If you want to spend time searching for a tiny Colenel's eagle to stick on your commanding officer, or find a set of miniature bars, have fun.
I doubt you'll be able to come up with any WWII miniature rank decals or the like, but hey, if you find any, power to 'ya. Otherwise, there's nothing standard that fits that description. If you look at the models, any decals you're able to find won't hardly show up, and they'll be devils to put on. Practical wise, there's no point. Be devotion may have its rewards.
Last edited by Fish; May 6th, 2005 at 04:21. Reason: I decided to be constructive rather than simply scathingly witty
We'll show these filthy aliens what Imperial Guard are made of!
There isn't realy a sistem for rank. Millions of regiments are "Savage" barbairians. We just only hear about the pretty looking ones becuase no one carep about people runing around with clubs.
Also, in 49 thousand years do you honestly think theyl be using the same Officer marking as today.
Following the WWII markings will not work. The reason is simple - the minis are too small. The real markings and badges would not be visible in this scale. How each regiment is marked really varies immensly - you are free to make it up.
Generaly be wary of implementing real stuff in Wh40k. An example - the SS camo pattern from about 1944 is probably the best one ever designed, but it simply cannot be done on a Wh40k mini - it would look like a guardsman afflicted with pox (you can see it in IG Collectors Guide). Note also that the purpose of camo is to break the silhouette of the masked object and blend it into the background. The purpose of painting the mini is directly opposite. So using good camo pattern you will end up with quite an unimpressive army that can be hardly told apart from the table. For that reason you have to use "camo" rather than camo - something that will make the mini more, not less visible. And that means you have to make an artfully screwed pattern if you get my meaning
I am already deeply into an Elysian army (got 47 of the little beggers and a Vulture), so comments:
The figures are exquisite - cant say enough about the detail, but that does make assembly, painting and conversion a complete nightmare, note the following:
1 - wash them before assembly, warm soapy water will remove any of the lubricant they use on the molds.
2- be very carefull, look at those shoulder pads- they are individual pieces and very fidley, I found very rapidly that the best method for assembly was to put some glue on to a surface (margarine tub lid works well, then, holding the smaller part in a pair of tweezers (your fingers are too big) dip the relvent part of the piece into the glue then apply it to the mini. Build the thing up from the legs, takes me about 4-5 hours to trim and assemble 10 elysians
3. some parts just dont go, particularly the grenade launchers, the arms do not fit as pictured and it takes quite a while with a craft knife and green stuff to achieve a decent pose
4. the figures are so detailed that conversions are a nightmare, try and stay away from it
5. some stuff seems like a good idea but isnt - principally we are talking about the Elysian weapons sprue, all the arms com already holding guns, these are not just attached to the hands but usualy right down the forearms, accordingly fitting a new weapon is a complete and utter pain without marring the damn near perfect detail on the model
1 - I test painted a number of Kasrkin and Cadians to get the colour scheme I wanted (grey/blue jump suits, desert coloured armour plates) but when applied to the elysians I found the colours went differently, particularly washes on the jump suits, this is principally to the wavy bits being convex on IG figures from GW, forcing washes into the recesses but off most the surface, whereas the Elysian jump suits are concave meaning the bulk of the suit is coloured heavily by the wash.
1 - in discusion with forgeworld on markings the following happened, FW admitted that they found that the detail on the minis mean there were no flat surfaces of a reasonable size to paint markings in, (I had come to the same conclusions). Of the painted Elysians on the FW site, all bar one had been doe by the heavy metal team (the exception is the guy crouching in a bush) and they couldnt figure out how to put markings on them. FW suggested I may like to sumbit any ideas I had to Warwick Kinrade who at that time was working on IA 3. I duly submitted the attachment based on current british army shoulder flash for paratroop regiments. I havent heard anything back, which generaly means they have rejected the idea, but it may be of use to you
(note the export from powerpoint hasnt come through particularly well to bitmap but you ge the idea)
Hmmmm, ok, first off the bat, any reference to 'real life' UNIT markings and RANK markings is purely that, reference (hence no interest on raising an army of un-'PC' Space Nazis). The point of the thread, which Mr Zakalwe has been most helpful, is purely trying to work out what (if any.....sic the savage imperial guard angle or anyone NOT using markings....) insignia and markings and imperial guardsman would be sporting. That doesnt transfer onto a 28mm model, of course, unless you yourself are 28mm, then away you go....Im not however.
So basically feel free to respond on two levels: Fluff based for any info on the scale of Imperial Guard formations, compared with a practical examples such as ww1-modern, and how this would be displayed on your average guardsman. Practical, for how the fluff would translate onto a 28mm model.
Obviously the later will be restricted to a few small flat areas, and hence only a certain level of fluff detail can be achieved, but thats the whole point of the thread: to what degree is practical....Elysians have two very fiddly little shoulder pads and the only other place i can think of that could sport markings would be the back of the helmet. As has already been mentioned in a Dakka thread, taking ww2 US for example, rarely are soldiers marked up below platoon level. To reflect the constant shift of personnel i guess, plus at that level most of the infantary and NCO's know who eachother is, so its less of a logistic thing.
Anyway, as Cheredanine mentioned, Elysians are fiddly as feck, so im thinking of my simple army device on the left shoulder pad and the company number on the right. Possibly use the back of the helmet for something else like rank....
Anyway, dont post replies that aren't interested in discussing this, your wasting your own time and mine. Maybe thats cleared things up
*cue bombardment of *****y replies....*
well cheers for the reply and saving me from your 'scathingly witty reply'
i bruise easy......