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I've got a few questions pertaining to using an assault section effectively in tandem with a primarily infantry firebase...which pretty much means, how to counter-assault in IG...^_^
Firstly, if a squad of Mechanised Ogryns is going to spearhead the assault, should I kit out the Chimera with 2 Heavy Flamers, 2 Heavy Bolters/Multi-laser + Heavy Bolter? Since the Chimera is essentially gonna "floor it" towards the enemy. Do I still need a contingency to sit and shoot first? Would Multi-lasers/Heavy Bolters be more useful or would a pair of Flamers do the job better if the job of the Chimera is to provide close-range anti-infantry support? The ML/HB can take out light vehicles as well, providing a contingency against fast flanking vehicles.
Next, what about for "assault" Sentinels (with Hardened Fighters) supporting the assault? Would Heavy Flamers or Multi-lasers be more useful then? HFs are for close-range anti-infantry, but MLs provide excellent anti-infantry/light vehicle support, would it be a better choice?
Finally, in Rough Rider "Lancer" squads, would a Veteran Sergeant with a power weapon be a good choice? Or should I stick to the Hunting Lance and/or Storm Bolter?
*The "firebase" primarily contains Missile Launcher-equipped squads.
Hmm...are you using doctrines; seeing as you're using Ogryns and Riders, I guess not. But you suggested Hardened Fighter Sentinels; they aren't worth it.
The problem with Guard is that they lack heavy can-opener squads. This is what Leman Russ tanks are for, but should the enemy close the distance, tough. If you really are serious, I recommend getting a nice unit of Grey Knight Terminators (they rock; each one is WS 5 with a Strength 6 Powerweapon), and screening them a unit of Conscripts with Close Order Drill (because Initiative 4 does mean a lot). Use them for fire support, with the Storm Bolters and Psycannons providing anti-infantry firepower, and wait until the enemy assaults the conscripts, probably taking down a lot of them in the process. Countercharge with the Knights, and watch the results.
Here's the math. 45 points+weapon (min cost 5) for a vehicle that has 2 Strength 5, WS 4 attacks that DON'T ignore saves, or 46 points for a model with 2 Strength 6, WS 5 attacks that DO ignore saves? Plus the model has a plethora of special rules I am not posting lest I incur the wrath of Games Workshop.
As far as the "lancer" squads go, I'd say stick to the lances. You'll be paying almost 4 times more for the power sword than the lance, plus giving up the S and I boosts. Since the rough riders will all be dead by the end of the second or third round of assault, you are looking at maybe one extra power weapon attack that probably won't hit or wound anyway. Wasta of points.
And I second the notion of grey knights or grey knight terminators as back up rather than sentinels. Sentinels are moving heavy weapon platforms that blow up easy. I'm not wild about the concept of changing that role much.
And I think most people will agree that 99% of the time Ogryns are a waste of time when they cost almost as much as a PA Grey Knight who has a better strength, save and gun. Plus the special rules. My advice: REMEMBER THE SHROUDING. I can't believe the # of times I've forgotten to enforce this.
Karnov let all of us fulfil our repressed dreams of being a fat Russian man running around in the great outdoors and getting shot at by weird stone heads and crap. You didn't have a repressed fantasy about doing such marvelous things? Well, I don't believe you . . . [djpretzel]
IMO the Ogyn idea is not so good, they are too expensive. I would use Rough Riders, or have a slightly tooled up Command Squad in a Chimera. Give them a Mortar so it can fire away with when waiting in the background, and then when needed a HSO, Carapace, with power sword, Commissar with Power Fist etc. They can pop out and do some damage.
"A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
Sir Winston Churchil
I think roughriders is the perfect choice for this kind of tactic (as stated above), infact why not get 3 whole 10 man roughrider squads? with just one squad (which charges) you could take down the following: 10 tactical marines, 10 assualtmarines, 5 terminators, 1 carnifex, 1 hivetyrant etc, etc.
Now think if you had 3 squads of these CC monsters, 30 dead marines if they charge, nasty! and their points value is only 330 points in total, with that imagine how much damage in a sm or even a tyranid army, these guys should easily earn their points back.
Hmm, I think you are getting a little confused here, a counter assult squad sits with your fire base and responds to the enemies advancing assult troops.
As such, provided you deploy them OK they dont need to be that speedy, so..
Ogryns: they are not exactly killers, but they can be use full to take on assulting troops, they are an effective speed bump, deploy them in front of your fire base, when they get charged, either charge in your other counter assult units or even ammassed bayonnettes, or use the couple of turns they buy you to reposistio your nearer units. Accordingly the ogryn do not need a chimera
Rough riders: excellent choice, they are different from ogryn, in that the ogry are their to take a charge, wheras rough riders are there to do the charging, you can do this in one of 2 ways, either try and time your charge and movement so you charge the assulting troops before they charge you (this may lose you a turn of shooting but remember they are under preasure to get into the assult rather than stand there under your guns), the second method is to fix a charge by letting them charge one of your units then counter charging, of course the problem is with IG that your units will tend to be decimated and flee straight away, which can be a problem, so this tactic works best if you use ogryn to fix the charge then rough riders to counter assault. Of course this means spending a lot of points on your counter assult which will detract from your firing line, so I would not employ it in armies of less than 2000 points
Sentinals as assult: bin em, the only viable assult sentinal deep strikes with a heavy flamer, the number of close combat attacks is an irrlelvance, it need to go in with a squad. But this really isnt counter assult
who would in their right mind would assault with guardsmen anyways unless you want to use a squad or two as a speed bump. dont waste points on ogryns and roughriders, trust me they dont work that well. spend those extra points on maximising your troops and heavy weapons. they will save you
Use them as a swarm army. I always suggest taking this:Originally Posted by Burn the Herectic
Close Order Drill
Now, we ally with Kroot, buy several Hound packs to tie up an enemy fireline, we buy our infantry platoons like normal but take a nice unit of Conscripts, upgrade them to Beastmen, and attach Commissar Gaunt into the unit. The Veterans are there to support the Kroot with extra shots. Now, while the enemy is tied down in melee, we march up the main unit of Beastmen into combat. We now have a 51 man fearless unit, that on the charge, makes 154 Strength 4 initiative 5 attacks, of which four ignore saves.
"OMG...LOLOLOLOL"...That's all I can say...^_^"We now have a 51 man fearless unit, that on the charge, makes 154 Strength 4 initiative 5 attacks, of which four ignore saves."
Well, I just wanted to try something different, and, should it work, I'd like to see the opponents face when he gets bowled over in CC by Guard...or find that there are too many CC-oriented troops in an IG army for his own CC-oriented troops to get through.
I'll just as likely get raped though...but that's what the firebase is for.