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The Grey knights need only two things to be the perfect army in my eyes, Chaplains and Librarians. You'd think that the grey knights would be crying to their chaplains after every battle, troumatized by their deamonic encounters. If anyone has read the book Grey Knights you would know that alaric went to chaplain... X when he lost his comrades in battle.
If the daemonhunters are going to archive every daemon they kill, you'd think that the inquisitors would let the GK librarians do the work in their librarium.
The two units have so much potential fluf wise... and no chapter is complete without chaplains and librarians.
So i ask everyone two things:
What rules would you write for our two leader-people (I've been told every special character or unit i have come up with was way to over powered - and they're right :p )
Secondaly, what would you have your GK chaplain/librarian look like? (one of my mates has shown me a kick ass way to mold modles)
I look forward to eventually using the modles that are concocted in this thread and all your help will be greatly... blah blah blah blah blah blah
DA SPACE DOGY
You shouldn't rely on Black Library books for fluff, especially Grey Knight. It's got quite a few violations of GW-fluff in it. For starters, GK don't have the ranks of Chaplain or Librarian.
Each and every GK is self-sufficient in terms of faith, and looks only to their direct superior for spiritual guidance - Justicars, Brother-Captains, and Grand Masters all fufill the duties of a Chaplain for their squads. If the GK had to rely on Chaplains like other chapters, then they wouldn't be nearly as effective considering the nature of the enemies they fight. But using the GK's system, every marine goes into battle surrounded by his brothers and personally attended to by his spiritual counselor.
As for Librarians, all GK are psykers to one degree or another. The highest ranking GK (GMs) are already as powerful as librarians from other Space Marine chapters (list of powers, Force weapons). Even squads of Grey Knights can summon forth the power of the Warp if need be (Holocaust). As for the fluff, no Grey Knight can be wasted upon documenting enemies and the like - they're a small force compared to their enemy, and every man is needed to fight. Such menial tasks are delegated to Chapter serfs, who are little more than brainwiped drones (barely above servitors).
I know, I know, I'm such a pessimist!
Anyways, if you wanted to throw fluff aside and create the models for proxy use (A librarian could stand in for a Grand Master, and a Chaplain could stand in for a Brother-Captain or Justicar), that's cool. A GK Chaplain would, I imagine, look less like standard Chaplains and more like a GK. Standard silver armor, with a black arm & shoulder (instead of all-black armor) to denote his rank. Skull mask as normal. Nemesis Force Weapon represented by a Crozius, probably in the shape of a hammer (Ordo Malleus, after all). A Librarian would be similar in scheme: silver armor, something blue (maybe an arm, maybe half of the model, maybe just a few bits of armor), a massive and painfully ornate Force weapon (a GK Librarian would be one of the most powerful psychic beings in the galaxy!), and a psychic hood.
Let us be fair,Grey Knights don't have cool units like Librarians and Chaplains (or heavy weapon squads) because they were never intended to be a core force, just an army to ally with or use to induct another army with when hunting daemons.
This is sad, because I love them and win or lose I am using them.
As far as fluff there isn't enough to make any accurate judgments as to their structure within the imperium.
....speaking of which, i recall something else i'd wish added to the codex: a normal power armored HQ (like the captain, except GK style. might help for keeping point costs in check..)
"One thing that intrigues people to fantasy is how different it is from reality. Make sure you remember that difference, and you'll have a wonderful time."
This comes up once and a while. A DH army character comes from the inquisitors, we just don't have the special HQs and Elites a SM army does. It is actually a little boring for pure GK players, that's why I play Inquisitors more, for the character.
Every GK Termie looks like a librarian, they have the books hanging on them, hoods, etc. The old models were exact actually. One of my OOP termies is actually a librarian, but I guarantee no one can find a difference from the OOP GK termie. So there you have a model explaination.
Daemon documetation is good point though. The GK power comes from their knowledge of daemons and it's quite the collection. I guess each GK that survives the battle comes aways with knowledge to pass on. But this could be a very cool character.
Chaplains seem worthless in GK organization and fighting style. If they need them, then they would be too weak to do their job in the first place.
Look to inquisitors for your cool character needs. GKs just don't function in a support system like SMs.
Yeah each grey knight must be a chaplain and librarian unto themselves.
Their training and indoctrination exceed the levels of both of those units on the basic GK!
In the fluff its said no knight ever in its history turned from his duty, during the heresy and beyond whole legions and chapters of regular marines fall from grace to chaos, they even did a bit in the uk white dwarf recently about renegade marines.
Each grey knight must be able to stand alone against the worst horrors of the universe or they wouldn't be there, and when they stand together woe betide their enemies, in the fluff at least. Read a dozen or so and a GM banishing a Daemon Primarch to the warp with their combined powers.
Shame on the real battlefield they just explode under starcannon/plasma/railgun etc fire...
Ask not a question of the eldar, for they will give you three answers all of which are true and horrifying to know.
I always assumed that the librarians function was taken on by the grandmasters and brother-captains.
Another assumption, based on the theme of the fluff for GKs is that they are so staunch in their faith that no spiritual guidance is needed. They are confident that their commanders' goals are true and just and that any brother lost in battle gave his life proudly in service of the Emperor and is to be praised, not mourned.
ALL gK are psycic, so tell me how the hell they are ment to have librarians, Oh i get it, specialy trained hardened psys to cronicle the events of specialy trained hardened psys!!!!!!!!!!
Yes im being sarcastic, open your minds people and avoid stupid questions like this, practicly every GK is a librarian.
i do however agree with the point on chaplins.
but remember thare are no stupid questions, just stupid people.
PROUD TO BE IN THE BRITISH ARMY.
~~ Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death~~
All Grey Knights have the potential for Librarian level psychic power, but most don't reach it. I'd say a Brother-Captain would be the equivalent of a Lexicanum or Codicier, and a Grand Master is the equivalent of an Epistolary. (Although apparently better at channeling warp energy into his weapon) Although with the way Grey Knights operate, spread out all over the Galaxy sometimes with a single squad operating independently, all squad leaders probably fulfil the librarian's role of recording battles and information. After all, someone's gotta fill up the Libra Daemonicus
In this vein however, what about the other specialists? I would imagine that their vehicles are probably serviced by human tech priests. It seems reasonable, perhaps all Grey Knights are so concerned with Daemon slaying that the Inquisition gets contacts in the Adeptus Mechanicus to help out. In the book "Grey Knights" the Justicar removes the progenoid glands of fallen marines, which sounds reasonable. I guess they just don't have battle standards, they are a secret chapter after all (although they have no problem displaying hte chapter badge and heraldry on their armor.) So all Grey Knight squad leaders fulfill the roles of Sergeant, Chaplain, Apothecary, and Librarian.
There's an angel on my shoulder, in my hand a sword of gold.
This is a good point, and it would be nice to have some new models to paint, but by the same token it would detract from the GK fluff if they were to put in Chaplains and Librarians for reasons that have been illustrated well enough above. The rock-hardness of the Grey Knights is what gives the Daemonhunters their character; the Space Wolves have their Norse connections, the Orks their goofyness, the Emperor's Children have the fact that they are pink (hahaha), and so to reduce the elite of the elite down to the level of bog standard SMurfs would sort of dilute the DH a bit.Originally Posted by Dorhnkurk
To be honest I'd be happy with just a few minor tweaks rather than full blown new characters. A proper model for the Grand Master would be nice, as well as possibly a Radical Inquisitor model. Even small things like some transfers to use on the SM/ IG inductees or something, a power armoured/ terminator Inquisitor or a proper (NON FORGEWORLD!!!) GK dreadnought, would make a difference.
Athough since I'm wishing for stuff, another troop choice in the shape of a dedicated anti-armour unit would go down a treat as well.
Last edited by CharlieMalleus; June 5th, 2005 at 16:53.