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Hey, just a simple question of opinion here, do you think this HQ is too expensive for a 2000 point BA army that has 6 troop choices and an elite troop choice to get DC from?
The only reason i'm entertaining this idea is the DC could reach a massive size so these fellas would have plenty of hard shields, and a better chance at getting the best bang for the buck. If i'm going to use 2 chaplains as my HQ, i'm taking a grail no matter what anybody says lol. but feel free to play with the other gear and such.
i'd have somewhere around 14/15 DC models on average + the 2 chaplains, so 16/17 man assault squad of doom...
BA Chaplain â€“ Master of Sanctity â€“ 321
terminator honours, jump pack, lightning claws, rosarius, artificer armour, grail
BA Chaplain - Master of Sanctity - 266
terminator honours, jump pack, bolt pistol, crozius arcanum, rosarius, artificer armour
total HQ cost: 587
edit: this is 66-70 attacks (with avg amout of DC) on the charge, all rerolling to hit
Last edited by gypsy; June 3rd, 2005 at 08:19.
with an HQ that uses more than 1/4 of your points allowence can allow wither 2 options
1) some very luck shots from the enemy take out the enitre HQ in turn 1 (ive seen it happen)
2) you win the enitre game with just those men
it all depends on how you use the weather there worth their points, personally i say got for it, i love chaplains and assault squads.
"In a large war, the tanks only battle the tanks, its up to the footsloggers to win the war" -me
You only roll for Death company ONCE per squad.It doesnt matter if you have two chaplains.This has been brought up before and has been resolved before.However you do still get the D3+3 DC PER chaplain.
Well...as a Blood Angels player, I find that relying on the Death Company too much is a major oversight. They can do amazing things, but keep in mind that they aren't totally invincible. You have to be very careful; Blood Angels Chaplains are expensive and it's easy to put too much into them and the DC. I've played games where the DC did almost nothing and it was left up to two scout squads and a Rhino to save the day.
Specialist assault troops are good, but keep in mind that they're specialist. Any assault army needs heavy support. Spending five hundred points on the DC is eggs-in-the-basket. Sure, it's a tough basket, but it's still got all your eggs in it and it'll break eventually. Damn, I love that metaphor. Anyway, don't put too much into the DC. Keep a backup plan.
One tactic which I look down upon is the 'naked sergeant'; take an ass-freighter of scout squads, all with Vet. Sergeants with no wargear and hope like hell that you roll well for DC and get all those free powerfists. I don't like it, because a) It places too much on the fate of the DC and b) It's as cheesy as my mother's famous cheese cake.
umm i'm not quite sure where you came up with the idea that i implied rolling twice per squad. i came up with the numbers pretty simply.Originally Posted by Tycho
D3+3, D3+3 = 8-12 base
i have 7 squads of troops in this list, and half the time you'll get a DC member, so i was cautious and said 3/7 squads will roll for DC succesfully, and a roll of 6 in there to roll again, so 8 rolls for DC. again, half the time it works, so 1/2 of 8 is 4 more DC on average.
8-12 + 4 = 12-16 - which is where the average of 14 DC models comes from + the 2 chaplains for a total of 16 models in the DC.
each DC member is worth somewhere around 43 points, 14*43= 602 + 221 + 156 as base points for the chaplain (just minus the extra points for BA chaplains). So in theory the squad is worth 979 points, but i'd be paying 587 for them.
aah yeah this is exactly what i was worried about, i think i MIGHT take the lightning claws off of one of the chaplains to save some points, but he just looks too cool right now lol, or just say screw it to artificer armour. I've also actually never used 2 chaplains in a game before, think you could help me out with some advice if you've done this?
Since i do have quite a few (titanium) eggs in the basket, i geared this list to completely support the DC so they don't go down (heh, i know i know, sounds even worse). i have 3 infiltrating CC scout squads with teleport homers to bring in assault terminators. they will all be deployed more or less together and the DC will go up to where they are, so there'll be plenty of CC support for them. The rest of my list is completely geared towards shooting like crazy.
Last edited by gypsy; June 3rd, 2005 at 17:49.
Personaly, I find that the dual chappie DC squad in 2000 points or above to be perfectly fine. However, I wouldnt bother with the lightning claws, artificer armor or the grail. The artificer armor wont help against shooting as with that many menbers, chances are you will never have to delegate a shot to them. Save the points. The claws arent needed either as with 5 strength, wounding isnt very difficult. I dont remeber what the grail does anymore but thats from a long long time of knowing it is far to expensive for what it does. I would drop it as well. The dual DC is a very effective unit, but you must be sure that the rest of your list is effective to. At 2k points, DC just wont do it all by themselves. They can do most of it though and will succeed if you support them properly. The extra powerfists from the sergeants in here will go a long way to ensuring that they perform as well as you hope. Dont skimp on them.
Mentor of Space Marine Commanders far and wide.
Efficiency VS Point Cost VS Ease Of Use - Your best bets:
1) Chaplain led Assault squad - 2 plasma pistols, powerfisted sergeant
2) 8 man Devastator squad - 4 missile launchers
3) Land Speeder Tornado - HB + AC
heh this is what i understand about the grail: in the old rules it adds another dice to see how far the sweeping advance is and you just take the highest rolls discarding one. from what i can gather from the BA faq (but don't take my word for it), the grail now just simply adds another die roll AND it's added to the total distance for the consolidation move after they wipe out an opponent in CC. so for 25 points being able to move an EXTRA D6 seems very worth while, although i can see where you're coming from that it wasn't worth the point in the older edition.Originally Posted by Chaosbrynn
I wouldnt use a chaplain over 300 pts.. And why in the world would you drop the grail? Its one of the best items in the game, and extremely overpowered for blood angels
I pretty much always give my DC chaplain a grail. You charge, kill a unit, roll 2d6 for consolidation and get into combat with another if its during your turn.. very amazing item
Frankly, I dont think you have a problem with having your HQ being as points consumptive as it is. Im a little bit jaded, because I personally play space wolves, so I HAVE to take 3 HQ choices at 2000 and their points value comes to just about 800 points (counting terminator retinue on my Wolf Lord). Admittedly, I do agree with the others about putting too many eggs in one points basket. A strong HQ can either make or break an army. However in the case of the DC I think that putting two Chaplains together is going to be a really powerful combination that will almost certainly cause an opponent to know that they've been well nudged. Especially since having two chaplains would allow you to split up your DC a bit (right?....never played BA, so not too sure on the rules).
Only thing I'm unsure on.....do the BA chaplains follow the new SM codex rules for chaplains? I know SW priests don't but thats largely because we do our own thing.
yes BA chaplains have all the abilities of the normal chaplains and no you cannot split up the death company.. 2 chaplains forum an uber unit of death that attracts all the firepower of the opposing army