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Although I do not have a raider ( yet ), I must say at 14 armor they are tough cookies to crack.
Think about it, you have to go through 4 D6 ( sometimes more ) just to see what happens.
To Hit...To wound-Lascannon has a strength of 9 so you need to roll a 5 or a 6 just to do something. Then you have to roll again to see if anything happened sure you get a 6 ha lady luck may not be on your side. Its protected against most enemy standard infantry guns. Sure they will get destroyed but at what cost to the oppenent? LR's lay down lots of firepower ( yes iam including LRCs that can pump out more firepower ). Does anyone have success with LR's or iam I over my head? Please tell which LR you use.
Yes, we know. Believe it or not, we play the game too. :lol:Think about it, you have to go through 4 D6 ( sometimes more ) just to see what happens.
To Hit...To wound-Lascannon has a strength of 9 so you need to roll a 5 or a 6 just to do something. Then you have to roll again to see if anything happened sure you get a 6 ha lady luck may not be on your side. Its protected against most enemy standard infantry guns. Sure they will get destroyed but at what cost to the oppenent? LR's lay down lots of firepower ( yes iam including LRCs that can pump out more firepower ).
In games where I'm just playing DH, (no Imperial Guard) I'll take a normal Land Raider for additional firepower. If, however, I am playing with my Guard, I'll take the Crusader, after all, they have plaenty of heavy weapons to support an advance.
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It really depends. I consider the LR to be a durable and useful tank, but against certain armies (Necrons, Eldar/Dark Eldar) who have ways of bypassing AV14, it is not as effective. Against Orks, Chaos and IG, it's pretty damn good.
Some people underestimate how useful AV14 is, really. Many will tell you that a LR is an expensive metal coffin, but it's really not true. The only impediment is the expense and the lack of firepower they can dish out compared to the tanks of other factions. Since an LR is the only heavy support available for DH aside from Dreads, you don't really have a choice in the matter.
I've used an LR (or LRC) a total of three times in battle. Two of those times they were destroyed within two turns (once to a lascannon, and once to a drop-podded multi-melta). The third time, it was destroyed later in the game, but it WAS still destroyed. And yes, I know that's just poor luck on my part, but my point stands: a LR/LRC isn't some invincible terror-causing tank. With concentrated anti-tank for a turn or two, it's just as dead as anything else.Some people underestimate how useful AV14 is, really. Many will tell you that a LR is an expensive metal coffin, but it's really not true. The only impediment is the expense and the lack of firepower they can dish out compared to the tanks of other factions. Since an LR is the only heavy support available for DH aside from Dreads, you don't really have a choice in the matter.
Forgive me if I think that an inducted Armored Fist with lascannon, a Platoon with a FEW lascannons, or even a Tac squad is a better (and cheaper) way to get anti-tank into a DH army.
The Landraider is a giant deathtrap. I know; I've fought them and killed them:
Imperial Guard: Rough Riders w/ Meltabombs, Deepstriking Veterans/Stormtroopers with Meltaguns/bombs, etc.
Tyranids: Genestealers, Leaping Warriors w/ Rending Claws, pretty much anything Rending. If you can get them to the other side, Monstrous Creatures work well too.
Space Marines: Assault Cannons, Multi-melta speeders, Assault squads w/ Meltabombs, Lascannon Devestators w/ Tank Hunters
Dark Eldar: Dark Lances, Dark Lances, Dark Lances. Oh, and Alpha rushing Wyches with Haywire Grenades. With the right rolls, you have the ability to cover 32" in a single turn.
Kroot: Eviscerator Shapers. They'll find their way.
Eldar: Wraithcannon, Bright Lances, Fire Dragons, Concealed Guardian Storm Squads w/ Haywire Grenades, Infiltrating Striking Scorpions
Tau: Railguns, Deepstriking Crisis Suits w/ Fusion Guns, Suicide Gue'Vesala squads armed w/ EMP Grenades.
Necrons: Pretty much the entire Necron List.
Chaos: Tank-hunting Havocs, Daemonettes, Possessed w/ Daemonic Talons, Raptors w/ Meltabombs, Chaos Cultists w/ Meltabombs, etc.
GoDaM! Thats alotta stuff!
One of the problems with LR/LRCs is that they've gotten such a reputation (due solely to the AV14) as a game winner than when you field one, your opponent concentrates on popping it. And, as with anything in 40K, concentrated fire WILL succeed.
The only army type where I'd say a LR/LRC is worth it is in a totally mechanized force. If you have, say, 4+ transports, a Dreadnought or two, and maybe even a Russ or Sentinels, then the enemy's anti-tank fire will have so damn many targets that they'll be overwhelmed. But that's theory, never tried it out (despite having all of those vehicles painted and ready to go).
*sigh* I hate this anti-Land Raider argument.
"The Land Raider is useless because it dies really early on after your opponent shoots everything he has at it."
Okay: anything is dead if your opponent fires everything he has at it for two turns. That's hardly a negative. The only reason the Land Raider dies so quickly is because your opponent freaks out and spends a couple of turns shooting everything he has at it. Which is two turns that he isn't paying attention to the other 1250 points of your army. I never said it was invincible. I said it was tough. Melta weapons have to be within half range to get the extra d6 and a bad scatter roll can ruin this for most deep-strikers. A lascannon needs a five or a six to do anything, and that's after rolling to hit the damn thing. Rending weapons? You need a six and then it's only to glance. Genestealers get some ridiculous amount of attacks, but they're Genestealers. A Crusader should tear them apart before they get anywhere near assaulting.
Every army has some form of anti-tank, which presumably can kill tanks. Saying that this hypothetical unit is useless because this can be killed by this other hypothetical unit is like saying fire is useless because water puts it out.
Edit: Sorry if that sounded like a rant, but it gets on my nerves when people just assume the Land Raider is worthless for what is at heart a rather silly reason.
I can't agree more with you ZE_POODLE. The Landy has its place in the Deamonhunter army just like in other armys. Its a good well rounded tank that cost alot of points.
Its not like your paying 250 points for a single twin-linked lasgun or something. I like the Theory that if your fielding a Landy field other armor in your list so either your enemy shoots his anti-tank guns at the Landy or your other tanks. This way you Land raider wont be singled out, and you can use the other armor to support the big beast.
Remeber that the DH's Landy can be bought as a transport for your Inquistor Lord. So this way you can make use of its transport capability and have some mighty fire power.
Check the Space Marine Fourm for a Thread on standard Lands or Crusader pattern.
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Any vehicle in warhammer is a gamble. Sometimes it'll get shot out from under you, sometimes it will roll across the field slaughtering everything in it's path. I am a Necron - IG/DH player and have witnessed this from both sides. Even the Necron Monolith (much more survivable than a LR IMO) will disappear in the first few turns if it's the biggest worry for your opponent. Sure, if it survives for a few rounds of shooting then that's a few rounds of not shooting your troops. If it get's blown away on the first turn then you're ut 250 points.
I personally think vehicles in 40k are worth less than their infantry counterparts because of the myriad of ways they can be destroyed by a single hit. The only time I would recommend fielding LRs is when they aren't the only targets. Everyone knows Daemonhunters are a slow army and will typically focus first-turn shooting into taking out the transports. I know I do.
Daemonhunters are a tough army to field as their only real tank-hunting unit is the LR with it's lascannon. This makes it a primary target for any tank-using armies. I typically field an IG army or their heavy weapon firepower and use DH as CC troops. The 15 missile launchers/lascannon/autocannon teams my IG field are more anti-armor/high save guns then the DH need without the need to spend on tanks.
The way I see it, I can either field a single LR for 250 points with two lascannon or two IG infantry squads with two lascannon, 1 missile launcher and about 25 wounds.
I do not criticize. I do not offend. All I offer is my opinion which means only as much as you make it.