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Had a couple of battles this weekend and had nothing really exciting or unusual, same units did good that always do, same did badly, and I made some of the same errors. I won both because DH rock of course but here's my thoughts:
Storm bolters are the still the best thing in 40k. I played Orks and Eldar and removed buckets of them at a time. I mean, entire flanks of 20! fire dragons gone, boyz, gone, rear armour gone, just amazing.
Storm troopers worthless in small squads. I don't want to make 10 man ST squads, too many points for weak units, so it's probably the end for those guys in my list. I had meltas within 6", flamers on eldar and nothing. And this wasn't the first time.
Deep striking GM and termies still not working. Not arriving until turn 3 as ususal, I couln't put them into a banshee/wraithguard heavy force so I DS'd them in my lines, and all they could do is shoot. Not one NFW use in a 400pt+ squad. Moving turn 4, and 5 is not enough, (battle was over by 5) Should I have put them into the enemy, maybe for fun, but then Victory points would be an issu when they would get shot up.
Crusader may be my GMs new ride. I used a Crusader vs. Orks for my GM termies, and despite a huge tactical error on my part, it put them in the right place at the right time. Point sink, sure sometimes, but it doesn't need to be termies, PAGKs would like a ride sometimes. Crusader will be a main stay until I learn otherwise.
Inquisitor Metalstorm squads with plasma cannon. Still the best use of the Inquisitor elite. Strange no one deep striked on me this time. Good fire base on heavy fire than the storm bolter.
Callidus, I'm starting to feel guilty she is so mean.
Shrouding worked three or four times, a record easily, and a very nice thing when facing starcannons.
Psycannons are never a bad buy, but better in regualr squads and not in a purg squad. I did the purg squad in one game and when they had sight, they did damage, but between LoS obstructions, or LD failed test to shoot somethng further back, they just didn't perform. I can see them doing great, so I will try it again, but when I really want to win, I'll keep psycannons in the troops units.
Bottom line, regular GKs still close the deal and pull the weight. Games still look bad early because of deep strikers, but the tides soon shifts once those GKFAs come in.
Not sure I agree with you entirely......
1. Stormbolters are awesome, but remember that those squads you were wiping out were orks and eldar. But those are some of the best targets, 3/4 toughness with 5+ or worse saves, and even 4+ saves will get mowed down with enough shots. But once you start getting to power armored and higher tougness troops (most notably space marines/chaos/necron) the storm bolters will have a much tougher time killing stuff.
2. While I agree storm troopers aren't the best basic troops, they're MUCH cheaper than PAGK and serve as some mobile tank hunters with a rhino and 2 meltas, for around the same price as a TLLC dread. Alternatively, they can be equipped with plasma. Either way, they can fill a niche in GK fire power (anti-tank or anti-power armor).
3. I agree compeltely here. Almost all the time when I deepstrike I try to do it close enough so I can assault next turn, but that leaves them open to shooting (like the time necrons poured 97 gauss shots into them and didn't kill anyone.....sadly that isn't too common). Alternatively, they can be dropped behind cover, but that makes getting an assault that much more difficult, as the other player can start pulling back units. And in terms of firepower...they're no better than a standard PAGK, although I do put most of my psycannons on termies.
I do have an idea I want to try out though. Take a 5 man IST squad with 5 meltas and attatch the Grandmaster to them. Drive them up first turn, then second turn disembark and move for an assault. He'll also serve as a good teleport homer to call down other deepstrikers with.
*edit* I remembered this wouldn't work with a rhino do to terminator armor, so a chimera would have to be used....which leads me to thinking perhaps an Inquisitor Lord (with familiar, warrior, and acolyte, or switch familiar for acolyte if using a thunder hammer) would work better.
4. Land Raiders are nice, but generally they don't work for me. Generally I play against Tau, Necrons, or IG, so it's too easy for Land Raiders to be popped. ALthough, with smoke launchers, extra armor, and Machine Spirit you can almost guarentee a second turn assault with litte chance of losing it. Actually now that I think about it, I need to try that out. Just wish that hurricane bolters still could fire after moving 12
5. The inquisitor firebase is nice, but for me it's almost as much of a pointsink as Land Raiders. Sentinels, predator destructors, destroyers, crisis suits, hell, even big shootas, all can easily get into range and then unleash a lot of shots. I generally lose a few GK's to concentrated fire, I doubt a unit that wouldn't get saves would last.
6. Definitely nice, although I prefer the eversor for more attacks at a cheaper price.
7. Yeah shrouding generally doesn't work. Although when it does work, generally worth a laugh
8. Psycannons are awesome. I've never seen the necron player turboboost ever since I put them in I just wish they were a bit cheaper. Otherwise very nice, great for popping transports, rear armor, tau line troops, good rate of fire.
Last edited by Terzo; August 2nd, 2005 at 00:41.
1. Stormbolters are nice, for basic guns. Better than bolters or lasguns.
2. Yeah, maybe nice for the melta guns. That's about the only reason I feel to use them. Otherwise, they always seem to die in droves, much faster than GK. Besides, GK are just plain cooler.
3. I really haven't had much success with Deep Strike. You really need to have several units land at the same time in the same area (or at least make them really large units) in order to make them last long enough. Especially GKT. Any enemy that you DS them next to will throw everything at it (including the kitchen sink) because they know how bad it will be if the GKT get into CC. Unless you have a large GKT unit (very expensive) even with terminator saves you're gonna lose a lot. They're a bit too slow to DS away from an enemy. About the only reason would be to capture table quarters, or to DS into cover at an objective before your opponent. You could try some mobile IST in rhinos having a couple squads drive up and hop out into cover. Then use a tp homer on the vet sgt to DS in the GKT. Hopefully you can block some LOS with the rhinos after they have dropped off the IST, and the IST can whittle down return fire from other units, that your GKT will last through return fire.
4. LRs are expensive. However, they do have some major advantages. It might be interesting to try a 2 LR army (one fore each troop choice) and rush forward to get into assault on turn 2. Even 1 LR and 2 dreads might work, as either way your opponent will have some difficult decisions about what to shoot his anti-tank at.
5. I like the =I= firebase. However, they are REALLY fragile. You need to pad the unit with relatively useless models (extra familiars, mystics, hierophants, etc) to soak up wounds when possible, as well as always having them in some sort of cover. Overall, I think a slightly more expensive GK squad with 2 psycannons is better.
6. No comment
7. Really? Shrouding always works wonders for me when I expect it to. It isn't all that effective under 24". I don't expect it to be. If it does, it's a bonus. Instead, it is great to use with what I call my "Heavy Support Lite Troops". Often I use my 2 mandatory Troop GK choices as a light Heavy support squad. Leave them 5-man squads and give them 2 psycannons. Then, sit them back as far as you can and try to stay near 36" as much as possible. Any fire directed at them has a very good chance of successfully being Shrouded. I outshot a 'stand and shoot' Tau army with this tactic and using 4 of these type squads. I would pump out a lot of psycannon shots, hitting a lot (BS 4), wounding on 2+, and ignoring armor saves (b/c of AP4). A whole lot of hurt at 30". My Tau opponent missed shrouding about half the time for each unit (avg distance to spot is about 30" so right on par) and then
missed about half the time (BS3) with those units/models that could fire, then I got my 3+ armor saves for those that did manage to hit and wound.
8. I agree, psycannons are great but really only in regular squads ... not FA nor Purgation. Honestly, the only reason to take a purgation squad is that it has a minimum size of 3 (2+1 justicar). You can have a slightly cheaper unit with the same number of psycannons but no models to soak up wounds. Really, you pay an extra 5 points for psycannons in Purgation squads than you do in regular squads so is it really cost effective? I found I rarely want more than 2 psycannons in a squad anyway. More squads means more enemy units I can shoot at, plus better chances of having LOS to a unit that I need reduced/eliminated.