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I recently faced off with a sizable and powerfull Dark Eldar army of 1000pts, and even though I beat it (barely), I need help on beating it again. The only reason why I won was when his 11 Incubi came out of the webway portal, he made the mistake of bunching them together which made a very tasty target for my Plasma Cannon. However, I know he's not going to make the same mistake again. He uses webway portals formed by a lord he moves up the field very quickly due to it being transported in a raider. From these webway portals he sprouts 2 Talos and sometimes 11 Incubi but he usually keeps those in another raider. If I don't get to shoot those raiders on my first turn and he deploys his stuff there is no way to stop 2 Talos and 11 Incubi when they are within assault range on the first turn. Oh ya, and I forgot to mention that he has a squad that has 2 or 3 dark lances that pin down my Dreadnaught plus 3 guys that have these flamer things that turn my squads into "mash marines". Is there any way to defeat this opponent by other means or will I just have to hope I get first turn and knock down those raiders with Lascannons before they get too close.
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11 Incubi can't fit in a Raider ... ten models only.
In fact, Incubi, PERIOD, have to be in his lord's retinue. So he might be taking two lords.
And, with that many Incubi (huge points sink) he shouldn't have much else on the board ... between a 150 pt. ish lord (if tooled up), over 250 points (I believe) of Incubi....
I think he might be jipping you.
Anyways, Heavy Bolters are a godsend vs. DE. Leave the Lascannons at home. Missile Launchers and Heavy Bolters = yum stuff.
Or, play him on your terms. Use Drop Pods. ^_^
It would help if I knew a more detailed version of his list ... I do believe he might be cheating you a little bit, but I can't be certain.
No he wasn't cheating me. He was testing sending Incubi through a webway portal, thats why he had 11 of them plus his lord. Usuall he has less but puts them in a raider. I'll try and get an army list off him but the only stuff I'm worried about is the Incubi and the Talos, everything else my heavy bolter took care of.
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Well, I guess one option is to run away :confused: ....no seriously...
If your army is as mobile as possible, you can reposition to deal with the Webway once it's opened. As the Webway has to stay in one place, you can run rings around the troops coming from that spot and concentrate your fire.
The option of shooting down the Raider before the Webway gets up and running is sound, although tricky. Raiders are fast and are skimmers (only glancing hits). Mind you, LandSpeeders with Assault Cannons would take one down very quickly, rather than a LasCannon. What you want is concentrated fire, making sure it can't move at least.
For taking out his Incubi after they get out the Webway, consider anything AP3 or below. Maybe a Vindicator to drop AP2 death from above?
Also, as nasty as Incubi are, they're challenged quite well by a decent Marine squad. If they're not accompanied by the Lord, consider the merits of an Assault Squad with VetSarg Power Fist and a Reclusiarch to counter assault. If you have the Furious Assault skill, your initiative will be 5 (6 for Chaplain) and you'll be at St5. So, your Chaplain will strike first with 6 attacks on charge (power weapon) so most likely reducing squad by a bit.
Then, your normal marines will take the brunt of the Incubi attack, say 7 attacks, and then your Marines and importantly your VetSarge will attack, most likely wiping out the rest of the squad.
Going statisticly, a fight between 10 Incubi and 10 Assault Marines (Vet + PF) would be very close. However, throw in a round of shooting and charging and the AMs would win.
Just some thoughts.
EDIT: Actually, just realised the only way the Chaplain can get Furious Assault is if he has a command squad, which means no Jump packs. Still, I think a counter charge unit is a good idea.
if the Chaplain joins an furious charged ( Lol ) Assault Squad,
only the assulties gets fur.charge?
OK you may not get too much usefull help, reason is this, DE can operate very effectively at 1000 points, wheras BA suffer from points sinks like chaplains increased points cost.
This means 1000 points battles against DE is always gonna be difficult for you, on the bright side, your opponent doent appear to have to much of an idea of what he is doing or maybe it is just he is treating it as a test battle.
First thing I wqould do is reorganise my army, weapons like las cannons, missile launchers, plasma cannons are of little use to you, asside from the odd talos, he has nothing that a heavy bolter can not bring down, this is a world of heavy bolters, assault cannons etc.
Things of use:
anything with an assault cannon, but particularly LS with HB and AC
anything with heavy bolter.
Predetor destructors/Baal class with heavy bolter sponsons
Things you may expect to be of use for BA normally but against DE are a waste:
heavy weapons above
Flamers (yeah flamers- sure you can do a lot of damage, but see how he is faster than you, you wont get chance to use it)
Death company (I know I know, but look how often he avoids your "WBB" roll, see how he hits first, see how he gets to charge?)
veteran assault squads and honour guard for the same reason as DC
Now, he is still gonna zoom accross the table, drop a gate and assault, but at least you can do some prolific shooting damage to him first, no you need to deploy in a very "Spread out" manner (with everyone possible in cover), grouping your units gives you options to counter charge, but unless he is seriously insame, you are never gonna win the war of numbers. a dispersed force should make him think he is eating you peacemeal, but in fact it increases your chances to shoot (I know BA are not the stand back and shoot type, but it is the best stratergy). He is unlikely to send in a single warrior squad against a marine tac squad - you may well win, so he will go 2 on 1 or bring out witches (assuming he isnt already playing a witch cult army) do as much damage with a unit before it dies, in the mean time take out any raiders you can and once his units have taken out your first ones they are sitting ducks for your fire
I have three advises for you:
Remain static, and remain in cover! If you try to move, he will outmanouver you and kill you, but if you stay in cover, you will loose less marines to disentegrator/dark lance/blaster fire, and you will most likely have a free whack against anything that assaults you.
As said above, eveything heavier that HBs is a waste, since a HB are well capable of destroying everythingin the entire DE army list. A dev squad with 4x HBs is one of the most nightmarish things I can think of as a DE player, but it may not be the best option. I know nothing the space marine army list. However, seeing that he likes Incs, keep the plasma cannon handy...
Target the WWP carrier! If the model that is supposed to open the WWP is either dead or tied up in cc, the portal will not be opened, and the units inside counts as dead.. That will be a hard blow to him.
Play static, if you try and maneuvre against this guy, your just going to end up chasing them all over the board. Stand and fire, if you run away you just get shot in the back mindset.
Space your units out at least 7" apart so he cannot consolidate from unit to unit.
Concentrate your fire on the Incubi, they aren't so tough when you think about it. Sure, they have a +3 armour save...so does every one of your models! And they are T3, your T4 so they are easier to kill by shooting, they aren't any threat till you get in hand to hand. Sounds like your opponent likes to spend a lot of points on his Incubi and Talos.
Assuming he is using the Raider this time for his Incubi, shooting priorities:
1/ The Incubi Raider with everything you have. (I mean everything, there isn't a weapon you have that can't bring it down).
2/ The Incubi with everything you have, things like Plasma Weapons are helpful.
3/ WWP carrier when the Incubi are dead, to make that Talos footslog.
4/ The Talos when WWP carrier is dead, it's fairly slow, again things like Plasma Rifles are prescribed.
I probably wouldn't take any vehicles against DE, except for perhaps a Whirlwind (hide it out of LOS and rain down fire), and a Landspeeder Tornado with an Assault Cannon. The Landspeeder is great, it can match DE mobility, and with 7 S5/6 AP4 shots a turn, it can single handedly chew up a DE squad.
So basically I'd take about 40 basic marines with Plasma Weapons/Missile Launchers, and then maybe either a Whirlwind, Missile Launcher/Heavy Bolter Devastator Squad or Landspeeder.
i believe a nice tank named the vindicator would help, trust me if they dont charge it they are in big trouble hell land a nice shot and you've doubled your points and crippled most of his army o and in my opinion scouts are quite nice against them, i mean you have a cheaper marine with a bolter or whatever you want, the lower armour save doesnt really matter because of the agonizers and punishers you wont be making any either way.
"Battlecannon shells are falling on my head but that doesn't mean i soon will be dead nannanana" A tribute to that terminator sweet 2+ save.
And then there as those days when it gets hosed down with some plasma.......as it happened today damn you tau crisis suits!! :mad:
If he had what you thought were 11 incubi, one of them was another lord. To fit the unit in a raider, he has to lose one model.
If the bearer of the WWP is killed, all units that were to be deployed via the portal are destroyed as well.
Staying in cover won't help too much. You only have a chance to strike first...well never. Unless he is brain dead, the incubi will have plasma grenades. You won't even get to strike at the same time. You get the simultaneous strike if you charge, but that's the only time. The Incubi have a higher WS and will hit almost all of your models on a 3+ (ICs being the exception) and will wound you on a 4+ with a power weapon. If you get into CC with him you will lose every time and you may not even get the chance to swing back.
The vindicator is pretty well useless as well cause it won't get to take a meaningful shot before it is blown to bits.
Scout squad speed bumps can buy you a turn of shooting, but you had better make the most of it.
You need to spread out your heavy weapons in the hope of denying him places to hide his raiders on the first turn. If hehas half a brain, you won't be able to do a thing on turn one, even if you go first. Turn two you will likely be in CC. You want him to kill you outright to give you a turn to shoot. If you can't put the serious hurt on the squad in that one turn, pack it in, cause barring some really phenomenal good luck for you and bad for him, you're pretty well done.
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.