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ADMIN: Could you please either make this thread sticky or delete it seeing as there is little point to going over this once a month or so and I think it would help anyone who is wondering how the math behind the Sharpshooters doctrine works. If its againt the rules to post this info im sorry please delete it.(i doubt GW can really do much about people talking about thier game and the math thats involved but thats just my view) Thank You
Ready for a little theorycraft??
Sharpsooters gives whoever it is given to an effective BS of 3.5
here is why:
first roll chance to hit is 50% or .5 (just like regular BS 3 models)
chance to roll a one which is a reroll is 16.667% or .16667
on your re-roll your chance to hit is 50% or .5
so your total chance to hit is .5(from first roll hit) + .16667(first foll one)*.5(re-roll hit)
this comes out to .5833 which just happens to be 58.33%
now if BS 3 hits 50% or .5 of the time and BS 4 hits 66.67% or .6667 of the time then sharpshooters which hit at a rate 58.33% or .5833 have the equivlent of BS 3.5 since .5833 is halfway between BS 3 and BS 4 chance to hit.
Hope that clears it up for future generations of guardsmen!
Thanks,SnipeHunter,I forgot to halve one of my numbers since they only miss half of the time.
Your math is impeccable and elegant
I was hping this thread would explain why sharp shooters is not worth +1p for BS3.5 on lasguns or special weapons, nor is it worth +10p for BS3.5 on one heavy weapon. Because that math exists. Sharpshooters is only worth it on a unit with 3 or more (don't think or more is possible) good weapons.
Assuming that you have either 6x10 Guardsmen w/ Shapshooter or 7x10 Guardsmen w/out Sharpshooter.
Assuming that you are firing at T4 3+ (MEQ) models.
7/12 * 1/3 * 1/3 * 60/1 = 420/108 = ~3.88 MEQ dead
6/12 * 1/3 * 1/3 * 70/1 = 420/108 = ~3.88 MEQ dead
As you can see, the damage output is identical. However, the advantage goes to the nonSS guardsmen because
they have 1 additional scoring unit and more bodies.
If you factor in HeavyWeapons, it gets more complicated.
assuming all squads have HeavyBolters and are targeting MEQ.
7/12 * 2/3 * 1/3 * 3/1 * 6/1 = 252/108 = ~2.33 MEQ dead
6/12 * 2/3 * 1/3 * 3/1 * 7/1 = 252/108 = ~2.33 MEQ dead
Again, the damage output is virtually the same. However, the advantage here is made less obvious. the 7th
HB for the nonSS squads increases the cost over that of the SSsquads by 10pts. However, i feel this is
countered by the fact that you gain an additional scoreing unit. In addition, the nonSS have more "meat".
I still feel that the additional bodies far outweights the minior increase in accuracy.
If you look as Firesupport squads. 8 SS support squads w/ 3 HB each, verus 9 nonSS support squads w/ 3 HB
each. Assuming targeting MEQ. Not factoring lasguns.
7/12 * 2/3 * 1/3 * 3/1 * 24/1 = 1008/108 = 9.33 MEQ dead
6/12 * 2/3 * 1/3 * 3/1 * 27/1 = 972/108 = 9.00 MEQ dead
As you can see, there's a slight advantage to the SS support squads. However, they do lack the added meat.
This is however, considered a "safe choice". It is by no means however a "no brainer".
My conclusion is that SS is a waste on non support squads. but on support squads, it is only a minor
Nicely done BoxANT!
"A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
Sir Winston Churchil
What the hell does MEQ mean? I've been here a bit and I see it used a lot.
Marine equivalent. 3+ save, usually T4.Originally Posted by ThePorcupine
well you can bring all your fancy math here and show us nicely arranged tables, but sometimes that 10 extra points can save your ass. For example, a few games ago against an eldar player. I played with my mechanised army and had decimated most of his army. He had one wraithlord though with two wounds. At that turn I started firing with my lascannon squad and only wounding him once. one wound left. But I had placed a guardsmen squad with a meltagun in case of, and they could maybe hold him up for a round (better then see him going lose on my tanks) anyway. in that squad I had one meltagun. And the roll came up.... a 1. I don't usually take sharpshooter but I felt like playing it a bit fluffy so I did, and after the dice was rerolled I managed to wound and kill the wraithlord sparing me the destruction of a russ or a demolisher.
And don't say "it is only a minor advantage." sometimes (especially in support squads) you'll need that extra dice to take down that landraider or monolith or whatever.
*Gives Guardsman 173rd a hi5* Awesome, I too sometimes add it to my regular squads, not all of them granted, but the ones with a lascannon yes, and they do also carry usually a meltagun or a plasma gun.Originally Posted by Guardsman 173rd
...And they shall fear the lasgun