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It seems to me that an infiltrated squad of veterans with shotguns seems to be better in cc than if I gave them las pistol and cc, well pretty much only on the charge. My logic is that with shotguns each veteran gets 2 BS 4 shots at basically their own cc ability and being assualt weapons they get to further charge with a +1 A getting two attacks in the combat.
10 man squad
1x vet searg with power fist & laspistol and HI
I think it could be useful to charge and try to tie up an enemy unit on the side, as I do not want to send them into full out combat or taking full shots first turn.
EDIT- Yeah whoops forgot about the pistol
Last edited by InquisitorMarcus; August 27th, 2005 at 19:55.
First off, drop the HonImp. it only really gives you a +1A and +1Ld, not worth the 25pts imho. instead take a TradeMarkItem, this will help them much more. Rerollable Ld8 is much better than Ld9.
I like Vets alot. they're fun to make and use. but i have my doubts about a "pure" CC vet squad.
as it is right now your squad runs you ~148pts. i'm not saying that they couldn't be effective, but if you really want a good unit that will tie up enemies in CC i'd rather spend those points on 30 Conscripts and a Commissar.
I disagree, Honorifica is way worth the points. Not only does it give you LD9 and +1A, it gives you WS 4, and 3 wounds. Your fist will hit on 3's ( if your opponent has WS4 ), while the rest of your squad hits on 4's. I always use Honorifica on someone other than an officer in my army.Originally Posted by BoxANT
Make sure your Fist has a pistol to use the bonus CCW attack, and you will have 4 fist attacks! That squad could indead do some damage.
"A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
Sir Winston Churchil
Originally Posted by Diggums Hammer
the WS4 doesn't unless you're fighting WS3 troops. against MEQ you're stilling hitting on a 4+ and being hit (unless your Sgt is alone) on a 3+.
3 wounds are nice, but since your Sgt is hidden (can't be targeted like an IC) it only really matters when he's the last guy left, since you can't assign the Sgt wounds until he's the last man standing (in which case he's screwed).
imo, you should save the HonImp for a JO, he'll actually really benifit from 3 wounds.
but yes, don't forget a boltpisol on the Sgt!
Yeah, I have used conscripts and commissar before but the problem with them is that they need the enemy to really come to them to be effective, while the vets can infiltrate and start out fairly close. I think your right about the IH though, it would be much more effective on another officer, as anyways the squad will most likely die if they decide to concentrate on it, but then again that means they arnt moving towards my guns
let me say this again
Guardsmen dont do well in combat!!!!
vs any cc primary army they will get there asses kick
if you want good cc units take ogyrns
even riders suck in combat
given lances they will kick ass for a turn if they charge but s3 t3 +5 saves dont help
you can give em xeno mounts for +4 saves and an extra s4 attack but still ws3 s3 t3 is horrible
(if your insane you can tak xenomounts carapace armor and give em +3 save but that use 3 doctrine points and is hell spesive
ive learn the hard way when 30 guardsmen(none with power weaps)
are gettting torn to shrreds by 5 berskers and a champion of khorne(the champ had alot stuuf thought
Originally Posted by jancz
yes, guardsmen suck in CC. but if you throw enough guardsmen at something (not T7+ or AV10+) it will eventually die. that's why conscripts are handy.
personally i prefer RR far more than ogryns. ogryns are only worth it if you are playing against someone who doesn't use powefists or many Str8 weapons. even then they can be surprisingly gunned down easily by mass bolter fire
RR are a one shot unit, imo there's no use in trying to make them more than that. but they are the best counter-attack unit we have. if you're doing your job right (shooting alot), not many enemy assault elements should hit your lines. but the ones that do can ususally be crippled by RRs.
you would think but i threw 30 guys at 5 berzekers and a lientant and was losing(had to stop tank battle was starting)i had no power weaps tought
and flamers arent that great. its short enough for and enemy to charge throught your ability to fire it
I'd give the sergeant a storm bolter and then use the unit to hunt gaunts, grots, ripperswarms, nurglings, LaTD mutants and other horde/low toughness/armour save units.
I cant really see any good reason for them to charge into cc, but then again, unless you're using the drop troopers doctrine, I think this unit, while fun, is a bit silly.
For horde control I still prefer a hellhound or a squad of heavyflamer sentinels.
Power fist and storm bolters! Give your sgt caraprace armour. I've learned this is a legal
tactic that even the GW people said was allright to use!
-HONORABLE MENTIONS IN BLITZKRIEG PAINTING COMP-
"THAT I.G. GUY WITH THAT OVERDEVELOPED TRIGGER FINGER"